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History The history of Dallas

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by apound, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. the estate sale was near Westmoreland and Jefferson - in OC - not really sure if it wasn't just brought in as it seemed to be the only car stuff there....had to ask a time or two until they gave me that info - there was more "bar" related stuff....pics coming....
     
  2. not real good.....need to break it down to scan the pics....




    IMG_0001.jpg
     
  3. wingspread7
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingspread7
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mid 60's : Does anyone remember Junior Edwards and some of his street racers from Gill Edwards Garage down near Fair Park? How about Bobby Carson form Carson's Garrage in East Dallas or "Hands" @ Green Valley?
    Chuck
     
  4. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 1,995

    rfraze
    Member

    "Hands", as you called him, may well be the best known regular guy racer in Texas, if not the Southwest. He is mentioned and pictured in EVERY thread involving racing in Texas, and will never be forgotten. I may not get the spelling right, but he was August Harcroft. Help me out, Mr. Walcott.
     
  5. This is a review of a movie about The Cellar that was in the entertainment section of the Fort Worth paper last Friday.


    By Cary Darling

    cdarling@dfw.com

    Posted 8:44am on Thursday, Nov. 21, 2013
    Thursday, Nov. 21, 2013 Thursday, Nov. 21, 2013
    By Cary Darling Fort Worth Star-Telegram
    The Cellar was a legendary Fort Worth club — with branches in Dallas, Houston and (briefly) San Antonio — that became the focal point for much of the counterculture in ’60s-era North Texas. It attracted everyone from up-and-coming comedians like George Carlin and Jack Burns (who were working in Dallas radio at the time) to visiting musical dignitaries (Led Zeppelin), and even reporters like Bob Schieffer (then a cops reporter at the Star-Telegram) looking for a wild night out.

    Crowds of Texas musicians — ZZ Top’s Frank Beard and Dusty Hill, Steve and Jimmy Vaughan, Johnny Winter, Shawn Phillips — jammed on the Cellar stage. And the club was also where some of the Secret Service agents assigned to JFK’s detail reportedly were hanging out the night before the assassination, a fact that became a point of criticism in the tragedy’s aftermath.

    All of the Cellar’s storied past is recalled lovingly in Giles McCrary’s You Must Be Weird or You Wouldn’t Be Here, a captivating documentary playing at the Ridglea Theater on Friday night. It not only chronicles the birth and death of the riotous Cellar but also manages to capture a sense of time and place in which the social order was in flux.

    Yet Weird isn’t pure celebration. McCrary doesn’t shy away from owner Pat Kirkwood’s bad side, including his racism (blacks weren’t allowed to patronize The Cellar, even though it started in 1959 as a jazz club and beatnik hangout) and the sense of danger and violence he liked to project.

    Consisting largely of still photos and talking heads of those who were there — including Schieffer, musician Joe Ely and writer/historian Joe Nick Patoski — Weird tells a story largely unknown to the current generation. Along with Kirby Warnock’s similarly low-budget When Dallas Rocked (playing Dec. 5 at the Ridglea), Joseph Alexandre’s Warriors of the Discotheque about Dallas’ pioneering Starck Club, and Melissa Kirkendall’s Teen-A-Go-Go (about Fort Worth’s ’60s rock scene), there’s now a wealth of films about this area’s pop-culture contributions, many of which had been forgotten. As North Texans, we are all richer for it.
     
  6. "The Cellar was a legendary Fort Worth club — with branches in Dallas, Houston and (briefly) San Antonio"

    Wherever I was...I was downtown. on the North end. Like I said, I remember the KLIF studios being close. 1969,been lots of stimulants and depressives since then.
     
  7. Bobby Carson raced the "swamp buggy" 32 sedan along with his older brother Jimmy...Jimmy was the "brains" of this beautiful sedan..If any of you ever run across a C & J blower manifold..It was Jimmy Carson and Geo Jackson,there fore the C & J
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  8. Rob,you dont need any help here,,,I cant spell Hands name either...
    Hands little brother was Butch Lake..both ran out of Austin,Texas
     
  9. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,675

    Larry T
    Member

    August Hartkopf.

    I was a little too young to see him race, but all of the "older" guys (even up here by the Red River) had Hands stories to tell.

    A couple of pictures I picked up off the web.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  10. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 1,995

    rfraze
    Member

    Thanks Larry T for spelling and pic. I remember how well-tuned and high-winding his engines were, but even more, how he seemed like he was going to break the shifter AND the seat when shifting. The one thing that needs to be remembered about Hans was that he was a racer!
     
  11. oldspert
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,249

    oldspert
    Member
    from Texas

    Does anyone remember a racer named Corky Anderson? He raced a blue 39 Willys with a small block chevy. Ran the Circle Drags a lot and some at Green Valley, Yello Belly, and some other local tracks. His first name was Melvin. Also was a biker type in early to mid 60's.
     
  12. apound
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 542

    apound
    Member

    Since everyone is asking about racers from back in the day around Dallas thought I would ask if anyone knew Bill Fedder? I think he had a Mobil station on Marsalis not far from the Dallas zoo. Raced a 70 Trans Am (Humpin to please)? Also later a red 67 Camaro that had Sneaky Snake on it. This would have been in the early to mid 70's.
     
  13. blackrat40
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,167

    blackrat40
    Member

    There were two clubs in Dallas on McKinney Ave. at about the time period when we
    would go to the Cellar in Ft. Worth. The "Rubaiyat" and "The Wreck of the Hesperus".
    They were known in our day as "beatnik" clubs.
    For early Dallas racers; my best friend Jesse Measles(Measles&Beach B/G Anglia),
    We had a buddy in our racing clique named Corky Anderson who was trying to put
    together a Willys coupe for a gasser when I left Dallas for the Vietnam fun('65), and
    myself, (B/G '40 Ford cpe., D/A Model A cpe, C/A Anglia, & B/XGD).
    How about A.J. Tacket(Oak Cliff Welding Shop & Model A sedan) and Jack Little who
    ran a Cadillac engine in an old GM coupe at Circle in ~ '61-62?
     
  14. oldspert
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,249

    oldspert
    Member
    from Texas

    Thanks, I worked with Corky in 73 at Thermalloy on Vally View. He was trying to sell the Willys at that time. Also Jim Smith (Hot Rod Garage) was working at Plastronics as a mold maker then. A J Tacket was probably best known for his front suspension clips on early pickups. He had the process down to a perfect setup.
     
  15. Hell,oldspert.I always thoght Tacket was best known for his neat and tidy shop..LOL
     
  16. oldspert
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,249

    oldspert
    Member
    from Texas

    I guess if you didn't need to "swing a cat" in there, it was clean.
     
  17. stronga
    Joined: Aug 1, 2008
    Posts: 403

    stronga
    Member

  18. Stronga - looked at your link - nice stuff there. The building in the back ground of the "77" drive in should be Methodist Hospital - where I was about the time of the pic. The were lots of places like it at one time on Industrial Ave/Riverfront . There still is the "Hickory House" bbq.... car hop/drive in operating down there - it's right below the Houston/Oak Cliff bridge. Go by there sometimes - the old timers like to rattle off the old hot spots.
     
  19. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 1,995

    rfraze
    Member

    Anybody got pics of Custom Automotive? Extra credit if they show Bobby's T bucket out front or one of Stone, Woods, and Cook's Willys there.
     
  20. Thanks for the rememberance Rob...I also wish someone had photos you mention as mine were all lost when my house burned back in 1973
    Bobby
     
  21. elgringo71
    Joined: Oct 2, 2010
    Posts: 2,668

    elgringo71
    Member

    Here are a couple of Hands Hartkopf and his 56 Chevy and a shot of the flyer from the match race between Hands and Ferd Napfel and his Stormin Bull 55 Chevy which was a national record holder. If anyone was at the race I would love to hear the story. pictures attachment-59.jpeg bl1_png.jpg hands33333.jpg Hands00.jpg PHOTO2.jpg picture-5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  22. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,366

    greybeard360
    Member

    J.W. Tidmore originaly built that car to run AHRA with at Green Valley.
     
  23. blackrat40
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,167

    blackrat40
    Member

    Who won the match up between Hands and Napfel? Anybody know?
    I used to see Hands run at Caddo Mills,east of Dallas, in about '61 or so.
    That was one WAILING small block Chevy! Sounded like 10K RPM's.
    There was all kinds of stories about him pulling an engine with his bare
    hands or lifting the back wheels off the ground while stands were put
    under it. They were mostly made up exaggerations. He was big but not
    a superman. A very nice gentle giant.
     
  24. now Oct 2014,,,lets have some more from you "Old" Dallas guys..
     
  25. Just read the thread...thanks for the bump....pretty cool history.

    I never knew Reeder was "Nitro Alley"....I was more familiar with all of the speed and race shops further south where it turns into Ables Lane...I had a loft/work space round abouts 11166......there is an old tin building attached to an import building just west of that address.....lots of nice race cars/hot rods in there still....wild Corvette stands out. Then of course the Mueller Sausage building filled full of a recently retired racer/machinist/fabricator's stuff. Lots of cool cars in there. Of course the whole line of buildings north of the sausage building is still all race/mechanics/machinists and related.

    Mike Minette still operates on Reeder.....same house/shop as ever. Always full of neat cars to be worked on. Last I saw was a 60's....64?....Corvette with five spokes and pie crusts. Of course Phipps Automotive is still there as well. Still going.....and recently of Gas Monkey fame so to speak. Barf.....but Phipps is cool as usual. PHIPPS !!

    Not a whole lot to say about Forest/Emerald/ or even Motor for that matter. Once my cars were built.....we all tended to stay away from the blue and red light attentions down there. You know how it is....the younger you are, with a nice car....it didn't matter to them.....tickets, searches, seizures were all par for course....when they couldn't catch the actual racers in the first place. Sucked to be a spectator.

    Racing action that I watched then was the old Miller Brewing site late night.....more west then Dallas proper. Of course I stopped going there once the ricers started beating my favorite street racers. Robert Hames with the Reher-Morrison 14:1 compression small block 69 Chevelle used to do some major damage there. That was a 10,000 plus rpm motor. Wow, fun car to see and smell. AV gas special. Also a guy with a caged 66 Nova 496 big block......he was the one who hit the open manhole and rolled the car end over end about a dozen times...and walked away. That was a fun night. Car was dragged/winched and gone in lass then ten minutes after. Car was trailered before the driver went to the hospital. One tough SOB.

    Keller's Burger joints....yes....good eating....some rare occasions of nice cars....but sketchy sketchy neighborhood these days....."me love you long time" kind of stuff. Hole in the Wall burgers....gone.....and sadly one not mentioned.....where were you in '47 ??......CLUB SCHMITTS......why that burger joint and dive bar wasn't noted....I do not know. 67 years...family owned. Opened by the great generation....fresh return from the war. Excellent excellent stop off of ole' Harry Hines.....even up to the first of this year. Hot burger and fries, iced tea and a twelve pack to go....twelve bucks with tip!! Now she is destined for overflow parking of Dallas' finest bus and dart rail. Barf again, please.

    That's all from me. Thanks for the read. Awesome stuff. Dallas is still a great car spot, but to know it runs deeper then this....is great stuff.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
  26. Kid....right on.....cleared lots of old cars off of Ables - Fletchers place with the Stude trucks and Chryslers for one....Gas M. was years later just down on the corner from that.....his Ebay pics were done around the corner on Harry H.....what about K's burger's on Harry H. close to 635....
     
  27. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 1,995

    rfraze
    Member

    Club Schmitts!! My Dad and stepmom used to go there all the time. Pretty sure it was because you didn't even have to light up in there to be smoking.
    I remember a pretty good chrome shop a little south and east of there. No name in the brain. They did some nice work for my '27 roadster.
    The candy red was shot by a guy with a small shop on Harry Hines between the Circle Inn and the boat shop (Barber?)
    Recently saw some pics of Caddo Mills on Drag Cars in Motion and it said 20-30 miles from Big D. Is that correct? What has happened to Caddo? If still there, it sounds like a perfect place for a HAMB event.

    IMG_0001.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
  28. Rob
    Yes Caddo Mills is approx 30 miles N E of Dallas ,last time I drove by you could not even see the little entrance road leading to the site..It was a triangle shape of landing strips,,raced on one,pitted on another,third leg was unused,,,Might be able to see it on google earth,,,,its a couple miles west of the little town of Caddo Mills,,located on old hwy 67.
    I just returned from the geezer reunion ,Many of the old guys still living were in attendence,,
     
  29. CaddoMillsDragStrip.jpg
     
  30. Thanks Nitrobrother.....The "66' showing on the old 67 is confusing tho.....FM#1565 leads south to Interstate 30
     

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