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The FED B.S. thread.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lippy, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    My 150 Kent Fuller car had a VW steering box. I will try and run one in my new 188 in SPE type car. Thanks Brian!! Lippy:D
     
  2. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Basically the rule is that the mid plate needs to bolted in with at least two welded mounts. Being able to move the motor sounds like a good idea but as HG Wells points out alignment of the drive line can be a problem and you would also need different length driveshafts. Add to that the fact that the mid plate really should sit over an upright and the whole plan gets a little messy in this day and age.

    Roo
     
  3. HemiRambler
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 4,205

    HemiRambler
    Member

    I don't think it's kosher!!!
    I have saddles and clamps for my front motor mounts, but the mid plate is bolted into welded tabs. Those bolts are what really resist the torsional motor loads. Having the motor plate only supported with those clamps seems like a recipe for disaster. It's in the rule book. IF I remember it right - it's something like: Must use 4 - 3/8" mounting bolts - 2 must be welded. The requirements might be different depending on your class. Best to consult the rule book!!!


    EDIT: I didn't see Rooman's post (I type too slow) - He's a PRO - heed his advice well!

     
  4. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    I've seen R&P, I don't want that, but thanks. I'd like to build a new steering box from scratch, and I'm looking for info.

    I had a Ross box in my old FED but I never had an urge at the time to disassemble and inspect it. It steered much nicer than P&S box cars or the SPE box. Now I want to know why, and how to duplicate that.
     
  5. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Check out Gary Wood's new Stiletto box--I think that S & W have it in their catalog.

    Roo
     
  6. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    Can't find any, only their R&P - have a link?
     
  7. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Ok, got a lakewood can for BBC, got a set of anglia spindle bosses, got a lenco reverser with adapter for high gear only, got a set of GM BBC solid alum d-port heads, a 396 steel crank prepped by velasco, a 427 block, 4-bolt with head and main studs, 8-3/4 rear. VW box from King chassis, front wheels and spindles from my buddy Rocky, a 990 pump, enderle front cover, set of hilborn stack inj , hmmm...it's fun just looking for parts.:D Again thanks to Brian at King chassis for all the help. I'll get you back buddy. Lippy
     
  8. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Gary Wood may not be making them anymore as I see that they are not listed on S & W's web site even though there were listed in a print catalog that Scott sent me. This link will at least let you see what one looks like as Frank and Scott also stocked them.

    http://www.neilparks.com/chassis/steering.htm

    The parent company of Stiletto is Woodhaven Industries in Illinois but I could not find a link to a web site for them in a quick search.

    Roo
     
  9. Church Key
    Joined: Nov 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,511

    Church Key
    Member

    Could you post a picture of the VW steering box, and how you intend to use it for dragster use?
     
  10. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    My camera went kapooey. It has a clamp type mounting affair for mounting on the VW torsion bars on the front suspension that must be milled....cut off, Then is mounted with a plate on the gearbox cover ala P&S ect.... I'll google VW box and see what I can come up with. Lippy

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  11. Church Key
    Joined: Nov 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,511

    Church Key
    Member

    Thank you Lippy...It does look like a nice little box. How are you extending the sector shaft?
     
  12. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Probably sleeve it and weld it with a couple pins. I did notice the VW box is about three turns lock to lock. I think the correct pitman arm will improve it. I'm thinking a regular dragster box is about two or a little less turns. My old KF car steered real nice, soooo. It is actually smaller than it looks in that picture. Lippy
     
  13. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    P&S/ SPE boxes are about 1-1/2 turns. My old FED (in my avatar) was about 3 turns and I really liked it that way. Much easier to drive one handed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  14. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,330

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    So, which brands are you looking for? i saw a few last night but don't remember where (can check mozilla history later today)


    i also had a P+S box in an altered, and yes after the engine was put in (all iron SBC) it was kinda hard to turn, but i think the relatively high caster may have something to do with that as well...........?
     
  15. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    I really just want to know what a ross box looks like inside so I can build one like it.
     
  16. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,094

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    This is one of the main parts, Steering wheel rotates this sector and the output shaft has an arm attached with a drive pin that rides in the grooves. The grooves are cut in a way that the arc travel of the pin maintains the same ratio throughout lock to lock
     

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  17. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    Is that genuine OEM Ross? That's what the aftermarket race boxes look like inside. The Ross has such a slower ratio I expected to to be built differently like maybe worm and sector, or at least have a slower spiral.
     
  18. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,094

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Yes , the part is out of an early P&S dragster steering box , but the design is the same and was only using the part as a reference as to its workings and to its complexity in machining.
     
  19. Foot Feed
    Joined: Mar 7, 2011
    Posts: 31

    Foot Feed
    Member
    from AK

    What other "OEM" parts can be used to build with or have been used? Like for instance VW steering box, or corvair steering box, Ford or Anglia spindles etc.

    All this DIY FED talk has got me thinking I ought to have one because I've always wanted one.

    Ken
     
  20. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    There ya go! Now you got your mind right boss! Nothing like driving your very own FED!:D
     
  21. Smokin Joe
    Joined: Mar 19, 2002
    Posts: 3,771

    Smokin Joe
    Member

    If you're in the Bay area anyway, check and see if Roy Brizio still has the Champion Speedshop dragster at his shop.
     
  22. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,104

    the shadow
    Member

    It's been awhile but I had my ross apart thats in my rail 20 years ago and it has a single pin that follows the screw. The pins wear out and get scored up causing binding. the ross box's you seek where most commonly found on light weight cars. When Pat bilbow manufactured the Lyndwood dragsters (like mine) he used box's from crosley's (found on '49-'54 models I believe?)
    Paul
     

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  23. yoyodyne
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 856

    yoyodyne
    Member

    Thanks Paul, that's what I needed. I guess mine wasn't a Ross after all. If I find a photo I'll post it. Time to invent a new one I guess.
     
  24. I have 2 identical Ross boxes--one came from a Harley golf cart, the other from a Westcoaster 3 wheeler (like a Cushman). They are quite different looking than the Crosley type, small, with an aluminum case. They steer backwards, so they'll have to be reversed, or a bellcrank / dogbone added to the chassis to change direction.

    the output on these have 2 pins that ride in the worm.

    I'll see if I can get pics.
     
  25. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,267

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Now you guys are cookin. There are many ways to build an FED on the cheap you just have to use ingenuity and common sense. I am now toying with the idea of using a Nasty Benjamin K style barrell valve on a set of hilborn stack injectors. :D I live for this stuff. Lippy
     
  26. resqd37Zep
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,217

    resqd37Zep
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    I've always had a love for FED's. Just wondering whats it cost today to build a roller. By looking at the Kingchassis web page I'm thinking it may be within reach. Would it be recommended to pick up an older car and redo what need to be done or start with a whole new build? I guess my go would be an affordable Cakle car but something that looks as good as Tim Condors fed. Something like this one but a little longer.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
  27. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Currently on my jig--a new NT/F for Scott Calmes out of Illinois. Late hemi, 45" out, 225" wheelbase. Scott will be here on Tuesday to get fitted for the cage etc.

    Roo

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  28. Roo:
    Great to see more FEDs being built.
    We are still waiting for good weather to get Glenns car to the track.
    Looks like May 1st for us.
    Keep up the good work.
    Matt Shaff
     
  29. carshopowner
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 407

    carshopowner
    Member

    I remember that stage of the build well, in fact I have almost the exact same pictures of mine.

    We hope to make this a two day weekend. The track has a test and tune and swap meet Saturday, and the track is rented for Sunday. I have an appointment to get the IHRA sticker Saturday.

    I wish you and Scott the best luck, I still kind of wish I had sprung for a new trailer and gone to the 225" wheel base.

    What kind of body will be going on the FED?
     

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