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the fastest car on earth (info request)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by evil1, May 18, 2008.

  1. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Here’s a link to an amazing site regarding pre war GP cars and the history of the teams and drivers, it takes hours to read it,

    http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/main.htm

    <O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    The Auto Union at our centenary Hillclimb (Shelsley-Walsh in 2005) awesome car and sound.
    <O:p</O:p
    [​IMG]
    <O:p</O:p

    <O:p</O:p
    Here&#8217;s the &#8216;mountain climb&#8217; car in 1936 driven by Hans Stuck at the same venue !

    <O:p</O:p
    [​IMG]
    <O:p</O:p
    <O:p</O:p
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  2. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Very interesting thread worth a bump
     
  3. cavemag
    Joined: Jan 8, 2011
    Posts: 210

    cavemag
    Member

    It's cool that I have the same birthday as Malcolm Campbell
     
  4. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    Usually I despise people that dig up old threads, but the sheer beauty of these cars makes it worth reading this thread...absolutely mind blowing that 62 years ago, without the help of wind tunnels and dynos and such guys were piloting these works of art over 350mph...it makes me so proud of what we as humans can accomplish when you look at such seemingly impossible achievements were made during a time of such crude advancement compared to today's technology...simply astounding...
     
  5. <FANG>
    Joined: Feb 7, 2008
    Posts: 531

    <FANG>
    Member
    from W.L.A.

  6. skywolf
    Joined: Jul 1, 2006
    Posts: 1,868

    skywolf
    Member


    </fang>Her name was Florence Lowe "Pancho" Barnes not Poncho. I suspect they may have been referring to somebody else. :)
     
  7. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,945

    big creep
    Member

    its this one right?

    Richard Noble's Thrust SSC fastest car on earth at 745mph
    [​IMG]
     
  8. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    I know that this is a little off subject, but the myth that "Pancho" Barnes was some kind of outstanding aviation pioneer is just wrong. She certainly didn't have the skill to fly the Gee Bee which was regarded as one of the toughest racers to fly. I believe that Jimmy Doolittle was the only pilot to win races in that plane. Doolittle loved it but it was a very unforgiving plane at the hands of a lesser pilot.
    If you really want to read about the most accomplished female pilot of that era, then check out the biography of Jacqueline "Jackie" Cochran, who, among many other accomplishments, was the first women to go "supersonic."
    Gen. Chuck Yeager credits Cochran for helping him become a more polished individual out of the cockpit.
    On the other hand Yeager thought Pancho to be one of the, if not, the ugliest women he had ever seen. He complimented her on her steaks but not her aviation skills.
    I will give Barnes her due in that in 1930 she did surpass a speed record set by Amelia Earhart. Pancho was a participant in the early days of aviation but she never accomplished anything near the number of Earhart's records and is overshadowed by the later accomplishments of Cochran. Had it not been for the movie "The Right Stuff" and the Happy Bottom Riding Club we wouldn't be discussing her history. She was definitely "colorful" as most accounts refer to her.

    757px-Cochrane_with_Yeager.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Cochran
     
  9. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    It is, with Royal Air Force Squadron Leader Andy Green at the wheel at Black Rock Desert in Nevada, Oct 15, 1997 with a verified speed of 763.035 MPH (1227.968 Km/h). It is the first car to officially break the sound barrier on land. BTW SSC stand for Super Sonic Car. Remarkably, the record came 50 years and one day after Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in the air!
    Noble is preparing another vehicle "Bloodhound SSC" to try and surpass 1,000 MPH sometime this year.
     
  10. CliffHenderson
    Joined: Jan 26, 2011
    Posts: 2

    CliffHenderson
    Member
    from California

    I disagree wholeheartedly with your characterization of Barnes. Pancho Barnes was certainly one of the top 10 female pilots of the late 1920's, early 1930's era. She was the first woman stunt pilot in Hollywood, flew the Travelaire Mystery Ship (a very tricky plane to fly I might add) to break Earhart's speed record, and set other records including first flight from L.A. to Mexico City from the West Coast. She flew as a test pilot for Lockheed and flew dozens of different types of aircraft as a ferry pilot for manufacturers. This does not take away from Cochrane in any way -- she was the greatest woman pilot of her era. But keep in mind she did not compete until 1934, at a time when Barnes had already retired. Her greatest accomplishment, first woman to break the sound barrier, did not happen until 1953. If you want to learn a lot more about Barnes see the documentary "The Legend of Pancho Barnes" featuring interviews with Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover and many others: www.LegendofPanchoBarnes.com
     
  11. [​IMG]


    Oh come on Bluto your nose isn't that long. :D
     
  12. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,279

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Yes to the danger of foreign searches. You see fuck nut movies about the russian mob, but the reality is no doubt more deadly. Civil rights don't exist and your human rights will make for good politcal fodder and little else.
     
  13. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    Thanks for the links to the Pancho site. I will certainly agree with you that she did accomplish a great deal during her flying career but when one looks back at her legacy and the Happy Bottom Riding Club is the first thing people remember then I have to conclude that her "Colorful" character was more important then her aviation career.
    Tom Wolfe and the producers of the movie the Right Stuff did more to add to her myth. As you know the movie was pretty much a farce. Hey Yeager you want to go break the sound barrier tomorrow - yeah right! You are probably aware that Yeager took over the X-1 from Chalmers "Slick" Goodlin, who indeed wanted $125,000 to complete the testing. And the project worked it's way through dozens of test flights prior to the supersonic flight and they had to figure out the "Flying Tail" solution before the plane got above Mach-1.
    In closing, the Happy Bottom Riding Club and the characterizations in the movies have inflated Barnes actual contributions and accomplishments out of proportion in my opinion. I don't think that any aviation historian would put her on a list of the 10 best pilots of all-time. Aside from Earhart, Barnes and Cochran can you name seven other female pilots - I can't LOL
    I do admire your knowledge regarding the subject and enjoy discussing it with someone who knows what he's talking about. Thank You.
     
  14. CliffHenderson
    Joined: Jan 26, 2011
    Posts: 2

    CliffHenderson
    Member
    from California

    Well, Hollywood definitely "had its way" with the story of the breaking of the sound barrier. I don't think that Wolfe was that far off however, in that he seems to have captured the spirit of the by-the-seat-of-your-pants test piloting that predominated in the post-war era. Some of this stuff is too crazy for Hollywood to make up: Yeager really did bust a rib at Pancho's the day before he broke the sound barrier. By golly, he even went to a veterinarian to get himself taped up so as to avoid getting grounded by the base doctors. And if you ever read the story of his wingman Bob Hoover, who was originally slated to fly the X-1 ... why didn't Hoover fly the Mach 1 profile? It was because he got busted for buzzing a fellow pilot's girlfriend's house with his jet -- just to impress her and help his friend's love life.

    I find it amusing that you say that "characterizations in the movies have inflated Barnes' actual contributions and accomplishments". What movies??? There are only two that portray her as a character, the "Right Stuff" and a really bad Valerie Bertinelli movie that has little to do with fact, but I think does little to distort her record.

    Anyway, I understand where you are coming from regarding Barnes, and I don't think she'd be in the top ten list in terms of female pilots if you were including the latter half of the 20th Century. However if you were talking about the pre-WWII era, I think she would absolutely have made the cut. Louise Thaden, Jackie Cochrane, Phoebie Omelie, Amelia Earhart, Thea Rasche ... Marvel Crosson, Ruth Nichols, there are a few other names that could be on this list, but Pancho'd be right up there.

    BTW ya never heard of Eileen Collins or Pam Melroy? Both Space Shuttle Commanders.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    Eileen Collins and Pam Melroy. You don't get the left seat of the Shuttle without proving you are one of the best. The very fact that NASA put Eileen into the Commander's chair for the "Return to Flight" mission would verify that assessment. Eileen is the Aviation Hall of Fame in Dayton, Ohio.

    BTW, I read Tom Wolfe's book long before the movie came out and it is an excellent chronicle of of the path from Yeager to the Mercury 7 and Gordo's final flight in that program.

    The movie did take a lot of poetic license: By the time that Gus Grisson (1956) and Gordo Cooper (1957) were assigned to Edwards the HBRC had already burned down (1953); Yeager was leading an F-86 squadron at Hahn AFB in Germany starting in 1955 and Crossfield was at North American Aviation working on the X-15 program in the same year.

    Some of the scenes in the movie that aren't historically correct:
    1. Yeager being asked to break the sound barrier and then doing it the next day (actually he flew it 20-plus times before the barrier was broken with the 50th flight.
    2. Cooper meeting up with Grissom at the HBRC (they were together at Edwards but the Club was gone by the time they got there.
    3. Cooper and Grisson gawking while Crossfield made a flyover in the D-558-II Skyrocket while Yeager was barbecuing hot dogs. (Again, by the time that G&G were at Edwards, Yeager was in Germany and Crossfield at North American.
    4. Gordo and Gus at Edwards when Yeager broke Crossfield's record in the X1A and went into the roll coupling and recovered. That flight was on Dec. 12, 1953.

    G&G may have actually run into a civilian pilot at Edwards during their time there named Neil Armstrong.


    In conclusion, take the Happy Bottom Riding Club out of the equation and Barnes is barely a footnote in aviation history - "could haves" and "would have" don't count in my opinion.

    "You have two kinds of pilots here - your Prime Pilots who get all of the hot planes and your Pud-Knockers what will you two Pud-Knockers have?"

    Walt, you are most definitely a "PRIME PILOT!" you know your stuff very well! Thanks for the discussion.
     
  16. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I am now officially in awe...
     
  17. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    I bought a toy on the other website ,Of the railton mobil special ,did a search and got lost in this thread ,This history is amazing ........
     
  18. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    Panhco herself was able to recover ownership of the Travelaire R613K 'Mystery Ship" plane when Movieland of the Air Museum auctioned off its inventory on May 29, 1968 after co-owner Frank Tallman was killed in a private plane crash a short time earlier. The other owner was Paul Mantz making up Tallmantz Aviation. Mantz suffered fatal injuries flying a plane built for the original "Flight of the Phoenix" movie when the plane buckled just behind the cockpit during a landing sequence and flipped over. Pancho's son Bill had started to restore it but took his time because he he felt that it was too much of an airplane for an older pilot to handle and he didn't want Pancho to try it. He challenged her to get her license but the FAA never passed her and she stayed on the ground for the rest of her life.They kept it in a hanger at Mojove airport near Edwards for many years and after her death in 1975 and Billy's unfortunate death when his P-51 crashed near Lancaster, Ca. and the plane was never completely restored by Billy Barnes. The estate sold the partially restored plane to a private owner and is in England. No news of the plane has been released regarding its current status other than it was close to being completely restored.

    P.S. One of Gee Bee's is in the Smithsonian Air/Space Museum in D.C. with the livery of when Jimmy Doolittle flew it. It's quite a sight. When you see it for real it doesn't take a degree from MIT to see that it must have been a handful to fly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
  19. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,760

    belair
    Member

     
  20. noresore
    Joined: Jan 13, 2011
    Posts: 24

    noresore
    Member
    from Peoria, AZ

    Getting back on track of that this thread is about. The Land Speed Record cars of the pre-war era are indeed beautiful to look at. The elegance and the smooth lines of the body work is truly amazing. As one of the earlier posts said, this was all done without the use of computers and wind tunnel testing just the imagination and ingenuity of the designers and the courage of the drivers, who were, in most part the designer of the car. Take into consideration that they didn't understand the properties of the air going under the car at the time and that made these beauties incredibly difficult and dangerous to drive.
     
  21. dudley32
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,136

    dudley32
    Member

    I'm so glad this thread came back up...I'd never seen it before...d32
     
  22. pug man
    Joined: Apr 9, 2007
    Posts: 1,010

    pug man
    Member
    from louisiana

  23. Railton 'Mobil' Special inspired gas pump globe
    [​IMG]
     
  24. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,211

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    Man, what a history lesson! Glad this popped back up!
     

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