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Hot Rods The EUROPEAN DEUCE thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 57snrf, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,856

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Not just a pretty face either
    Jeff Beck.jpg
     
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  2. PontiacPower67
    Joined: Mar 24, 2015
    Posts: 43

    PontiacPower67

    To anyone that knows:
    Are the euro-fords the same size as they're American kin or are they something like a 4/5 scale?
     
  3. PontiacPower67
    Joined: Mar 24, 2015
    Posts: 43

    PontiacPower67

    That's (their)....

    Also...
    Has anyone heard about that where house some where in France that was filled with OEM flatheads all brand new... Imagine that...
     
  4. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    They should be the same size, people swap parts around. The differens is mostly the thing pointed out in this thread. I'm by no means an expert.

    Regarding the flathead warehouse, I only heart of a US citizen buy a lot if flatheads and sticking them behind his office in somewhere south. Over here they are not that avalible, and is most available in France. We call them FF, French Flathead.

    They is build for some simca's and a lot of army styled trucks. The French army had a lot at one point in time.
     
  5. PontiacPower67
    Joined: Mar 24, 2015
    Posts: 43

    PontiacPower67

    Very interesting... I'll see if I can find some more info too and share it, thanks
     
  6. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    The guy with all the FF, is a flathead guru, and he got a lot of them. Found a thread on the HAMB about them.
    There can't be that many flathead gurus with FF for sale.
    But I can't afford on, and if I could it would be cheaper for me to get one from France, so I didn't subscribe to it.
     
  7. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,856

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I helped a friend of mine bring a new French flattie back from Pleasanton Goodguys some years back for his 34 roadster.
     
  8. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Some answers…
    . The main difference between the European and American models is really the body/cowl section. [Edit: please see Page 1 for other details]. Save for a few differences, both models use pretty much the same frame, fenders, running boards… By the way, those European bodies used a lot of wood!

    . And regarding the French military flatheads: A large number of them turned up years ago. They were still crated/in boxes and So-Cal Speed Shop Sacramento purchased hundreds of them. If you’re on Facebook, there’s a bunch of info (as well as European V8-60s) on the “Euro Deuces” page. Here is what French hot rod enthusiast Francois-Xavier Bordes (who knows a thing or two about the subject) wrote:

    “I'm one of these guys who found a lorries breaker specialized in surplus army trucks (central France); he had 200 in a warehouse. I passed the info locally to club mates and to my good friend Miles Sherlock who sold them for a while in the UK. The early nineties were the days the army was getting rid of these obsolete trucks and their parts. These engines were remanufactured and test run on bench, not exactly new but superbly cared and wrapped. This is over now. Some cut out engines are still available but scarce.”

    Photo is from Francois-Xavier, a.k.a. FXB
    982-FXB.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
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  9. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 861

    chrisp
    Member

    When I was in the French Army in Africa in the mid 90's I saw some of the Simca trucks (no more in use), and when I asked about the engines, they told me that for a while they used to melt those v8 blocks to reuse the iron in their foundry on the base. I saved some military documents on the flathead, in one of them their is the weight of every single part for shipping purpose.
     
  10. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,360

    clem
    Member

    they are the same size, later models, such as model Y was smaller than similar looking earlier year American models. I thought that all those french flatheads were bought by Motor City Flatheads, a company in the States.
     
  11. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,230

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Henry's plans to build the same model of car in different markets around the world fell foul of the vehicle tax regimes in force in many European and other countries at the time. The American Ford approach had hitherto been to build reliability at low cost through relatively large but very lightly-stressed engines, but this meant that cars like the T and A were taxed like much more expensive cars in certain important European markets. The tax rates were moreover such that tax represented a significant chunk of the total purchase price, which threatened to price Ford out of the market.

    The Model Y was developed specifically for this situation. It was built from August 1932, with a 933cc flathead four, a 78" wheelbase, and a shield-shaped radiator shell which gave it an unmistakable family resemblance to the American-market '33-'34. Prototypes of the Y were running in Dearborn as early as 1931, which goes to show how far back the thinking behind Ford's mid-'30s aesthetic goes. The Y was the start of a line of development which ran up to the introduction of the 100E in 1953.

    Short answer, therefore: between March and August of 1932, Ford cars all over the world were the 106" chassis we all know.
     
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  12. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,360

    clem
    Member

    Didn't know that. Thanks for informing us. ^^^^^
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    In '32 I think England was stil the headquarters for big Fords built over there...before about '36 England had started to make A and B engines, but flatheads came in mid-30's, so '32's were heavy on imported Canadian stuff, including the mills. These cars were handicapped by British tax law (displacement, bore, # of pistons taxed!)even though British built, and I think there were probably more A-B-V8 trucks around. In this time period I think they were main source of hardware for German and French Fords. Germany rapidly moved up to Factory status, and by about '35 was casting engines and pretty much cpmpletely building cars...motives were keeping more work in Germany on a popular line and of course getting their major source of trucks for the coming war. Ford France was never big fighting against protectionist costs defending french industry, so it spun off and became part of French industry as Matford.
    The little countries around the edge of Europe all had no major car industries to protect or any unusual taxes on heavy iron, and got a lot of big Fords in prportion to their national size. I may be wrong on origins, but I believe they got largely USA produed stuff for their small assembly plants, and of course lots of small Fords from England.
    The English small fours are interesting...they look like mini-B's, but have the slanted valves and smaller combustion chambers from the V8 and lots of pure Ford details.
    Ford England made small-bore versions of A and B engines so customers could trade some torque in exchange for relief from the taxation based on bore. The B engines were produced in England and Germany long after their end here.
     
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  14. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    A lot of good info here - thank you all.
    Here is a European '32 Tudor from the UK.
    571-rodsNs.jpg
     
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  15. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Another cool Tudor from Europe... 532-vonskipCom.jpg
     
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  16. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    From the EURO DEUCES Facebook page: Herve Ditner's sedan built in France in 1932. This is the first version of the car. It has now been fully redone and can be seen on Page 1 of this topic. (It's the awesome green model with black wheels)
    596-jonathFJ.jpg
     
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  17. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    French 1932 brochure - the 4-door sedan 400.jpg
     
  18. Just found this on the facebook. 10557164_988367494528925_1448555304739432954_n.jpg
     
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  19. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,127

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    That is a very nice 2-door, I like that a lot. ;)
     
  20. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Youenn Perrin’s channeled 4-door sedan, ready to make a lap or two during a private race called "Dusty Race". (Photo: ATP Auto-Moto) 416-ATP-02.jpg
     
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  21. the cool thing is, without this thread, I wouldn't have known what I was looking at. The H.A.M.B. is edjamacational now!!!
     
  22. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    From the EURO DEUCES Facebook page: A real barn find. (Photo: Etienne Musslin) 308-musslin.jpg
     
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  23. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Herve Ditner's fantastic Tudor on the cover of the always excellent Powerglide Magazine (Issue #32) 500.jpg
     
  24. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Close up of a raised louver panel on Filip Rawoens' Tudor. (Source: Euro Deuces Facebook page) 550-rawoens.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
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  25. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    From the UK... 570-rodsNs.jpg
     
  26. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Are you sure Its from England, that steering wheel is om the right side, not the right hans side. Or not on the wrong side, the right and its and alright ride. I like it.

    Why is English so simple and so complicated at the same time, keep at it.
     
  27. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Car was built as a hot rod in the UK. But it might have been assembled in 1932 in another Ford factory in Europe (Germany, France...)
     
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  28. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    511-harr.jpg From the UK: Pete Dempsey's '32 Tudor. (Photo Tony Harrison via the Euro Deuces Facebook page)
     
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  29. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    As already mentioned, the Dagenham factory in the UK continued producing Deuces in 1933 and ’34. However, they were slightly different. They can easily be recognized thanks to their skirted fenders. This is Gary Kybert’s 1933 Tudor from England. 524-64pat.jpg
     
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  30. 57snrf
    Joined: Jun 12, 2009
    Posts: 891

    57snrf
    Member
    from California

    Johnny Best's former 1934 Deuce (Yes, '34... see post above ), photographed in 2002. Note shape of the body, with different cowl (lower area) and "taller" doors. Car is now owned by Paul Ford.
    511-best.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
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