Register now to get rid of these ads!

The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tjm73, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. dawford
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 499

    dawford
    Member

    Hi guys, I just got an email from FlyHiFlyLo Who stated that he was working with a turbo similar to the Buick Draw Thru setup that I have on my bench. I haven't used a turbo on my 470 but I have it running on an engine stand and it sounds great.

    I am not too interested in maximum HP as I intend to install it and others that I have the parts for into 2300 lb. Model A Fords. Using the stock Mercruiser Quadrajet and intake manafold into a generic aluminum performance head and alowing the engine to run to 5500 to 6000 rpm I am figuring about an increase from the stock Mercruiser 188/190 hp @ 4800 rpm to 225 hp.

    If I find that the light weight Model A can safely use more I might use the Buick Draw Thru set at 9 lbs of boost. I would have to use dished pistons and ARP head bolts to generate about 300 hp or more.

    My safety concerns are that someone who is inexperienced might put their foot in it and loose controll. My Mechanic has a friend who installed a performance Big Block Chevy in a 32 and he said that is was dangerous and hard to drive on the street.

    Anyway I will try to get back into the HAMB World. I had a hard time logging in and I'm having to learn how to navigate this forum anew.
     
  2. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Awesome! Good to see you back... You are kind of a hero around here. And yes, I don't know if you have caught up on the post over the last 4 pages. Good stuff. I also picked up a 301 TA turbo for mine. So it would be good to swap some ideas. My goal for this engine in my 24 hr endurance road race car is 265HP at 5200RPM to the track.

    My build desire is this:

    6.7" Aluminum Rods
    JE dish 9.0:1 light wieght pistons
    Crank turned to 2.20 rod journal (BBC) - stock stroke.
    SCJ Ford Aluminum head w/ 2.25 I/1.76 E - Ti retainers- Ti intake valves - Beehive Springs
    Comp 841NF (100 Gram) roller lifter
    Crower 1.8 Stainless Rockers
    Crower 1 pc 5/16 push rods
    Toyota Corona water pump.
    Race Balancer TBD
    Tilton Flywheel and clutch
    Cam sensed Distributorless ignition w/MSD
    Mercruiser 2BBL intake with welded plenum to accept T/A 301 T-3 turbo with wastegate mod.
    1968-1974 Lincoln Pass side exhaust manifold.
    This will put exhaust up and to the rear of the engine- The Turbo will have exhaust side to rear of engine 3" exhaust pipe- No muffler
    My Custom road racing 670 vac secondary carb- Holley
    Belt drive- TBA
    Front cover TBA
    Roller Cam bearings with oil feeds blocked off
    Mechanical Roller Camshaft 276/268, Lift .525/.514 w/115* lobe separation.
    ***Single stage External oil pump. If I can't get a cam with gear.

    My power increases from volumetric and Mechanical efficiency are estimated as follows.
    SCJ Head 25HP+
    Roller Cam 3HP+
    Roller Rockers 7HP+
    Roller Lifters 9HP+
    Lightened flywheel 2HP+
    Aluminum Rods and LW pistons with balanced rotating assy 11HP+
    Carburetor and ignition increase 5HP+

    Stock Rating 190/275tq
    This should build (no boost factored) @ 252HP++
    My drive train takes approx 60HP at 145MPH. So to get where I want to be I need 70+HP with the turbo. @ 7.25psi of boost it should/could make an additional 126HP. If so I will gate it at about 5.5-6psi.
    My to the ground number on the chassis dyno- Wild Guess= 270HP +/- 8 ... But the TQ number will be 325++

    I'm running a 355ci SBC now. And the car is very fast. If I can get these numbers and save 250-300 lbs of front end weight it will be fabulous. If I don't get the numbers- I'll see how it runs. For sure a Ford oddity engine in a Camaro scores +++ points.
     
  3. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    What is the stock length push rod on this engine?
     
  4. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 165

    beck
    Member

    dawford, I'm glad to see you back!
     
  5. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    One thing I have discovered now that I have a block with my intended car... If you want to swap in place of a chevy in a chevy config .... The oil pump is in the front so you will have to go external wet sump pump. and build the pan with the sump in the rear. I'm gonna do a single stage setup with the P/S pump on the back of the oil pump. I'll share what this takes to do when I get the parts to do it.
     
  6. tscheerer
    Joined: Oct 22, 2014
    Posts: 9

    tscheerer
    Member

    You are going down much the same path I took. I have a new SFI balancer, TFS A460 head with ti valves, studs, rockers & stud girdle, alum box pan to convert to dry sump, and probably more I'm forgetting. Was going to build a turbo engine, ended up just putting an alum head on it, as shown in the build list and videos a few pages back. Also have a TH350 trans and converter that was to be used with it. Let me know if you're interested in any of it as it's all for sale.
     
  7. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    That head will work on this block? Will it work on the std 460 bore? What valves are Ti? Both intake and exhaust? I do like that it is BBC exhaust config. What rockers/Ratio? Do you have a pic of the pan? Balancer brand/PN?
     
  8. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    This is the pump I will be using. A good friend of mine owns this Co and is willing to donate to the cause.
    [​IMG]
    I plan on using a 16/34 gears gilmore belt. The cool thing is off the back of the pump I will be running this power steering pump. It will really clean up the system.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    I already run a duel oil filter and cooler... So I just got to mod the pan and suck from the sump and go right into the center of the existing oil pressure port where the filter mounts. Here's a diagram off the net.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    I haven't... But it looks crazy. Their cam core pics look a lot like the ones I can get. I wonder if they get them from the same place I can or they actually make theirs too. It would be interesting to talk to them. Want me to call them Mon?
     
  11. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 165

    beck
    Member

    Your setup doesn't use an overpressure bypass? Do you remove the original bypass and plug the hole?
    If I have to go to the external pump I would like to keep the oil filter in it's stock location to save space. I planned to plumb the oil back into the motor using a oil cooler adapter like this;
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-performance&gclid=CLzEm6yIsdECFQaGaQod-NECdA
    The hole intended to feed the cooler would be plugged. The return from the cooler that feeds the filter would have the inlet hose from the pump.
    It would be super if the pump could be fed from the supply side of the adapter, but I think there is too much restriction in the motor passages. The original pump would be replaced by a spacer hooked to the supply tube. I will need to modify the pan like you are planning with hose feeding the pump.
     
  12. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    I'm not sure if that will work because it might just shoot the the oil right back into the pan where the pump used to be. Maybe thread and plug the old oil pump hole. The pump has a built in regulator.
     
  13. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,195

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    LSM Engineering is 10 miles from my home. I will be going right by there on Tuesday. I could stop in and explain our situation and maybe get the nickel tour.
    What do you guys think.?
     
  14. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Fo Sho!
     
  15. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

  16. Regarding LSM, a good knowledgeable friend told me to check with them He says the cut their own blanks, quite an impressive operation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  17. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 165

    beck
    Member

    Definitely check them out for us! They may be the solution to our problem.
     
  18. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Their site and what they do sure is impressive.
     
  19. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Here's a list of machine work I would like to get complete.
    Block:
    Mill back of block
    Over bore/hone .030
    Zero Deck
    Line bore for Roller cam bearings set primary oiling to mains (55mm or 50mm)
    Remove side cover stand offs and create new side cover mounting system. (Possible new cover with turbo drain back line)
    Plug oil pump vane
    Create new front cover with timing set w/p.
    Full length windage/scraper
    *Contemplating Big Mopar lifter bore (0.904). Good for extra .05 on ratio because of the larger diameter roller.

    Cam:
    Do one

    Crank:
    Knife edge, lighten
    Turn rod Journals to 2.20 (BBC) Std Stroke
    Chamfer
    10/std/Polish
    Drill for Pilot BUSHING
    Balance assy
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  20. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Ran across this on remanufactured.com. They are re-builders... Notice the timing set?
    [​IMG]
     
  21. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    I picked up a Jesel 25mm SBF lower cam drive pulley and an upper SBC cam pulley. Still looking for the ADP-30050 Cam to pulley adapter.
     
  22. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Got the Tilton 51-1202 bolted up for eval. Fit perfect! Crank mesh, bolt pattern, block clearance.... all good. Taking preliminary measurements compared to the SBC with a Tilton flywheel face of friction surface to friction surface I have approx .450 difference. from back of block. I'll have to mock up the trans and get a better look.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  23. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,195

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Well guys, I fell down on the job. I was unable to get to LSM today as planned. Waited in the doctor's office for over an hour past my appointment time for a 3 minute consult telling me that all my tests came back negative. So just come back in 3 months and we'll see if anything changes. Hell, a phone call could have told me that!
    By then it was too late to go to LSM. I am planning to go there tomorrow.
    Any specifics you want me to find out about, let me know. I have a pretty good list from FlyHiFlyLo plus my own.
     
  24. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 165

    beck
    Member

    One sales site I looked at said the 51-1202 is a 24 oz imbalance flywheel. If that is the case it is not the one you want. For measurement and mock up purposes it will work fine, but it needs to be a neutral balance flywheel to use it.

    I was fighting with these measurements just a few weeks ago. I couldn't get things worked out. In the end I think you need to see where the pilot shaft inserts the right depth into the pilot bearing. If that isn't right nothing works. I am interested in your final report on how much you are going to cut from the bell housing. I have 2 blocks here I am ready to shorten. I was just going to use the 5/8" that was stated here many times.
     
  25. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,195

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    I made it over to LSM today. Unfortunately, The guy we need to talk to was in a meeting. I'll give him a call tomorrow and set up a time we can get together.
    They got 'Stuff'.
     
  26. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    ALL Tilton flywheels are internal balance. Zero is how they come. This flywheel will accept and external weight. I verified this with Tilton before I jumped the shark. So it's good to go.

    My main concern is not necessarily the pilot bushing engagement but T/O bearing to pressure plate clearance. The Tilton T/O bearing is a great piece but is very sensitive to the pressure plate and overall travel to prevent damage to either component. As for the pilot bearing I may be relegated to a bronze adapter as I'm not sure the large conical hole already in the crank will allow for a good fit for a standard Chevy bushing. I've ran a bearing in this location before and can only get one race out of them before they dry out fail. Bronze has held for 5 races.

    This is the Tilton Magnesium bell house and Tilton T/O bearing. Upper hose is bleeder and side hose is Master Pressure.
    [​IMG]



    Before I jump into an International Scout starter- if anybody could verify the face of starter surface to face of ring gear they have... It might save me some issues.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Thanks for running by there.... Sorry to hear you got injured... Hope all is well.
     
  28. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,195

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    I didn't get injured. I just meant I didn't accomplish my assignment. The doctor was a scheduled appointment. We'll get hooked up there shortly.:rolleyes:
     
  29. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Oh good.... LOL
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.