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The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tjm73, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,309

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    The 488 has the best 'stock' performance #, so "Hell Yes" grab the motor!, even if you won't know what you have until you tear it down, you do know that you have at least some useable parts! I was lucky enough(pure dumb luck) to come by one of these for my AA truck project : I hope 188HP will do the job for a 'driver'! LOL!!
     
  2. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Isn't the BC on the small side for a competition application? I'm thinking a 4cyl with big valve springs would be harder on the cam and try to twist & move it around.
     
  3. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    It's a happy med.
     
  4. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,513

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    I was thinking around 1.500" on the core diameter would be right. That would give you the ability to have well over an inch of valve lift with 1.7 rockers. That would be more than in any engine I would ever build.
     
  5. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,513

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    The guy that I was hoping to have cut the cam blanks just got back to me.

    Here is what he said,
    "Well this is not a good fit. The material is very tough and the OD is too large for my CNC lathe spindle. Also my machines do not have a steady rest, which is what a part like this needs to eliminate tool chatter."

    He was referring to the 300M material, I know that there are other steels used, but it doesn't matter if his equipment can't accommodate the dimensions.

    Hope someone else can find a shop that can make these reasonably.
     
  6. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Yes, most CNC Lathe guys won't do this. They want to cut and frrd the cam about 6" at a time.

    300M is a form of chromoly and not that big of a deal to cut.
     
  7. "FlyHiFlyLo, mentioned my toyota corolla water pump...
    for a pulley,I wandered around a junkyard looking for one with the right setback and bolted it on. A larger diameter pulley than I used would free up some power. (The mercruiser 120 used a pulley so big it just misses the crank end pulley. ) I traced my adapter plate, scanned it and posted it here some time ago. After downloading the image and printing it I compared it to the original and found no significant difference. The back plate also acts as a sediment trap. It removed a half cup of sand of unknown origin from my coolant.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  8. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    We need to figure out exactly who wants some of these cam cores. I'll get them made with the gear and ready to go. They will be roller bearing journal ready (But will also work non roller in this block). The bearings are about 70 bucks a set. I can get you the cores cut to the exact profile you desire. There will be a min order of 3 core per person and the core will take any grind hyd/mech-Flat or hyd/mech roller up to .905 lift w/1.65 ratio. The core ground to your spec is same price as unground. The blanks are cut with lobes. So almost anyone can final grind if you want to have one final ground and a few unground for other apps. They will be carburized and hardened ready to run.
     
  9. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member


    Dennis, did you scan it 1:1? Can you email the scan still? I would like to put it in CAD.

    Is there any part number on the pump? Still having issue finding the exact one. Finding close but hey have bypass ports unlike yours.
     
  10. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    BTW, I have a solution for the side cover mounting nubs preventing a common roller lifter with vertical bars. It's a new side cover design that will allow off the shelf lifters.
     
  11. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Why 3 cores per person?
     
  12. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Depends how many jump on board. Could be less.
     
  13. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 168

    beck
    Member

    By "ground to your spec" to you mean a finished ground camshaft ready for use? OR does that mean ready for final finish grind? If it is a ready for use piece, we would be foolish to buy it any other way. The BIG problem with that is, I am no cam expert. I don't have the knowledge to spec what I need. I need to be able to call someone and tell them the application and motor information and rely on them.
    I'm sure we all have one major question... How much $$$.
    Are you or someone you know willing to make the mating distributor gear? The cam gear is useless without that.
    You are motivating me! Keep up the good work.
     
  14. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    If for race you wouldn't need a distr gear if you run dry sump & trigger ignition off the flywheel or balancer.
     
  15. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  16. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    You could call any cam guy and get the info you need. Then we get it ground and ready to run.
     
  17. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 168

    beck
    Member

    So $725 for a complete cam. That is a good price. When I called a very known cam mfg a year ago my cost was going to be $850, but that did not include the gear.

    You didn't say if you specified the timing sprocket type, or is that up to the buyer?

    Do you have someone willing to make the mating distributor gear? The cam gear doesn't help without that.

    If we could have a cam guru spec out a couple of grinds for different combos then we could pick what we wanted that may make it easier for some of us. I sure can't call my cam connection at another mfg and ask him to engineer it if I don't plan to have him make it. Anyone thoughts on this?

    I see a market for the lifter galley cover conversion now. I think anyone spending this much will want to go to a roller setup. Here is what I did. It requires some mill work. The bolt bosses are milled out and the gasket surface is milled flat instead of rounded. I plan to us silicone for a seal. The studs are 6-32, which is small but there isn't room for anything larger.
    Block with galley cover on small.jpg

    Block closeup with 1 section small.jpg

    The other method I have seen, which I like better than this one, is to weld threaded aluminum blocks in the galley. Place one inside each end and cut notches to put one in each of the vertical webs. That method would require a cover a little stiffer than the flat sheet cover I used.
    FlyHiFlyLo has another method he is working on, which may be better yet.
     
  18. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Yes that a great way to do it. My plan is to have a milled and finned set-up from .50 plate. The goal is to have any guy with a hand drill be able to install. Basically they would drill a through hole in three center walls and a hook would grab the hole and the hook stud would stick through the plate and you nut it down in three spots and use the factory gasket. Then stick a sawsall down in the block and cut the nubs off with a bi-metal blade.
     
  19. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    [​IMG] Beck, did you notice on Nichol's dragster he ground the floor smooth and level on the #1 lifter cavity?
     
  20. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 168

    beck
    Member

    I have never seen photos of his motor, so no I had not seen that. But why?

    Here is my guess to the function of that part.
    When the oil drains back into the front section of the lifter galley the raised portion forces oil to drain back through the hole toward the front. That hole drains oil to the cam/distributor drive gears. If a distributor wasn't used I agree to remove it to allow better drainage to the pan. If there is a distributor I say let the raised boss to promote oiling to the gears.
    The other 3 sections of the lifter galley do not have the raised boss.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  21. beck
    Joined: Sep 20, 2008
    Posts: 168

    beck
    Member

    There are 2 more things to note on Nichol's motor above.
    1) The method for securing the lifter galley cover. It appears just 3 bolts were used on his. These are the welded in bosses I spoke of earlier. For a little more clamping force there is room to put one on each end inside the galley. That would make 5 bolts.
    2) The finned aluminum cover directly under the head. This allows a Ford intake manifold to sit on this ledge. The Mercruiser intake manifold is taller and these 3 bolts help to secure it. Notice all of the intake attachment holes in the head are on an angle. Without this ledge the Ford manifold would not stay aligned, it would be pulled down the block while tightening the bolts. The intake manifold I made is like the Mercruiser and has these as part of it. I have also filled the outer 2 head bolt holes and remachined them perpendicular to the head, like the lower 3. Those 5 bolts will then hold things in the proper place when the other 5 are tightened. I'm not saying this is better or the only way to do it. It is just how I chose to do it.
     
  22. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Good analysis... I concur
     
  23. Beck, as far as the lifter cover, why not make a ribbed pattern and have it sand cast?

    Hoping life has been good for you.
     
  24. Boss9 Brian
    Joined: Jul 29, 2015
    Posts: 73

    Boss9 Brian

    Keep talking about the cams guys. I am interested. We did a base grind off of the stock cam through crower. It sounds good but the cam is one of the biggest areas for growth in these engines.
     
  25. Boss9 Brian
    Joined: Jul 29, 2015
    Posts: 73

    Boss9 Brian

    Scratch that last message. We found what we need.
     
  26. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Do tell...
     
  27. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,513

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Boss9 Brian,

    What did you find? I'm sure none of us want to reinvent the wheel (or cam). If there is something already being offered, can you fill us in?
     
  28. I have been following this thread for years, on and off. From 2010 until 2014, Dawford was quite active on this thread. I remember PMing him about 15 minutes after his last visit. I see he has not been back since December of '14. Does anyone know him or his fate?

    Curious in Ohio?
     
  29. Boss9 Brian
    Joined: Jul 29, 2015
    Posts: 73

    Boss9 Brian

    We just reground our cam. Still a flat tappet cam getting .600" lift.
     
  30. FlyHiFlyLo
    Joined: Dec 5, 2016
    Posts: 107

    FlyHiFlyLo
    Member

    Gotta have a roller cam. Too much TQ, Throttle Response, Reliability and HP to leave on the garage floor.
     

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