The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rodster, Mar 21, 2010.
Hey quit confusing them with facts! They would rather live in their own little world!
me too,I guess we're the "weirdos" haha
Been following this thread since Saturday night ... sure glad Ralph & Kevin have "kissed & made up"
... now for something completely different ...
Deuce Grille Shell "Pop Art":
...only quoting the Dominguez book on Edsel and Gregorie...in there the 32 is described as "too stubby" to be Edsel's liking (page 63).
There is more on Edsel's preference for "pointy shapes" in the zephyr chapter...quote on page 77 "Edsel loved pointy shapes and he wanted a pointy grill on his car"...
...so for sure design taste progressed through time..but within 24 months I do not think this had a bigger influence... if you read the book, to me this sounds like the 32 was for Edsel just an inbetween stage and he wanted to get rid of the style set with the Model A as fast as possible.
What also makes me believe this more, is if you look at the roadster (the continental car) that was hand built for him in 33/34...it had a v shaped grill although the original 33 Gregorie design was less pointy.
Note al ov us can afferd the gooder edykations like you HRP! Actually that was an obvious misspelling.
Not weird, SPECIAL!
Wow I read all 5 pages and decided to put the Golden ratio to the test and it works I knew I liked 100 dollar bills more than 20's and could never figure out why. It must be because Ben Franklin's portrait has the golden ratio and Andrew Jacksons does not.
Very insightful Mike! This depth of aesthetic appreciation, however, cannot be attributed to the allure of the Golden Section alone. No, this astute observation could only come after years of collecting drag cars, WWII kerosene-fired search lights, stingray bikes, go-carts, airstreams, industrial snow cats and Manx buggies. Scientists and philosophers have long known that this exact combination bestows unique cognitive power and aesthetic appreciation. And it's such a pity to think the rest of us poor schmucks are relegated to a lifetime of believing that our attraction to Hundreds over Twenties is the damm 5X value difference!
I started to post that we would all like 100 dollar bills better if they were 2 inches shorter ( 1:1.618) but after several minutes with my dial calipers came to that conclusion about Franklins portrait.
Rodster Hope you have a speedy recovery
Look! The Golden ratio is even behind the universal signal for a left turn!
Now that knocked me outta my chair! Oh boy, I never thought I'd see the similarities of Pelosi and a "stretched" grille!!
She's outta bounds of the Golden Ratio and went straight to the Bermuda Triangle. Poor souls enter into her mathematical formulation and "ZAP!" lost forever!
I don't have that book, so you'll need to fact check this against the book. According to what I've read, Gregorie was not hired until 1932, well after the 1932 Ford was designed. Gregorie was originally hired, in 1932, to design the speedster for Edsel that was based on the 1932 Ford chassis. Gregorie designed that 1933 type grill for the speedster, and it was at that point that Edsel decided it was the right look for the next year's model Ford. Gregorie was also responsible for other 1933 Ford styling cues. Apparantly, Edsel liked Gregorie's styling work better than his own!
Who are Michael Angelo and Di Vinci? Some bums from Bronx? Sorry, the art snob got the better of me.
Personally, while the '32 grille/shell is nice, I think the curves of the '33 are better.
I am so confused????????
That's because ratrods use the "brown ratio".
Don' feel confused. You have to read very slowly, close your eyes and contmplate your inner hot rodder. Soon a '32 grill will appear flanked by a buck naked women with "1:1.6" tatooed on her left shoulder beckoning with her index finger as she wispers youuu-whoo......
I just know if you guys keep this up, everyone who clicks on this thread will have their mind blown. To ease the trouble, here is an old pamphlet that I thought of from post #1.
Andy Warhol on Ethel.
before we get replies that tell us we hijack the thread, ill keep it short. All my info is from the book that i can really recommend.
Gregorie had nothing to do with the 32 ...that was Roberts and Edsel's efforts. Gregorie joined Ford in summer '31....sometime in late '31 he designed the grill for the model y...that went in production in '32...and that grill shape was the blue print for the 33 grill. Edsel also said about himself, that he can only judge design, not design himself....so you are right that Edsel liked Gregorie's styling work better than his own.
By no means is this coversation "hijacking the thread," which is about the design and form of the '32 grill (with a little humor thrown in). Asking the question "what, for now over 60 years, draws the vast majority of hot rodders to choose this grill over other options?" Hot rodders are fiercely independent--just walk through any car show-- so it's not like we are simply following the herd. It just looks by far the best to most of us. So I asked myself why, and the golden ratio, more specifly the golden rectangle, occured to me. I concluded that it's shape wasn't a coincidence. Knowing more about who actually designed it (if we could settle that question) would be super. So keep it up!
Thanks Danny. I admire your work as well. Unfortunately my arthritis forced me to sell my roadster last week. It's to a point where it takes me an honest 5 minutes just to get in. It was a great car and went to an excellent home....Mike
I've always wondered why shortened grills look shit. Now i have the answer.
Back to the question. What they have in common is.............one is beautiful..............one isn't...............guess which is which. In other words they don't have anything in common.
That's so true Frank,,but which one would be worth the most? The Mona Lisa,,then sell it and corner the market on original Deuce Grills!HRP
You're right! They don't necessarily have beauty in common, although various people may feel that either or both are beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or as some say while on vacation, the "beer holder"). The comparison here, however, is about form and proportion and how they illicit broad, popular aesthetic appeal.
The Mona Lisa is an 18" tall painting of a rather homely anonymous women. You can't even tell whether she is grinning, smirking or frowning. But despite this, it is by far the most well known, viewed, and admired painting on the planet. If you go to Paris and visit the Louvre museum, once you step into the small room where she hangs, her eyes follow you around until you're captivated like millions of people before. It has a spell-like allure.
So goes the '32 grill. It is a rather mundane rectangular shell, intersected by narrow vertical bars with otherwise few embellishments. In fact, for many, it becomes more attractive when its few embellishments are removed and their tracks filled. It competed for preeminence with all matter of high style designs full of flourishes and ornamentation, which were the work of the world's most well known automotive engineers and designers. Despite this, it is the most readily recognizable grill ever and the enduring choice of rodders the world over to adorn their beloved hot rods. It too has a spell-like allure. It's not surprising that the editors of the Rodders Journal choose a face-on deuce for the cover of their now current 15th Anniversary Edition out of the thousands of alternatives (full disclosure-- it's my car")
So, yes, they have a lot in common, and that commonality presents itself in form and proportion rather than ornamentation and dazzle. Let's face it, you wouldn't want to sleep with either one of them, but the vast majority would take them home.
Just to throw a wrench in the works, although the golden rule is 'golden' with respect to design, there was a University of New Mexico study that found that symmetry was what people found more attractive. That's left-right symmetry, particularly in facial features.
Then again, there is the waist to hip ratio...
Some researchers have found that the waist-hip ratio (WHR) is a significant measure of female attractiveness. Women with a 0.7 WHR are usually rated as more attractive by men from European cultures. Beauty icons such as Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren have or had ratios close to 0.7, even though they have different weights and heights.
Oh yeah, the golden ratio is also, if looked at in reverse, known as the Fibonacci Sequence.
Rad thread. Got sucked into reading the whole damn thing. But appreciated it none the less.
Do you think my arm looks better hanging out of the side window? And should I turn my wheels when I park, and if so, which way?
Wow! Like talkin' to a fence post.
Cool!! Something new to think about!!
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