Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Tell me my next move! AV8 steering

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Pete Poling, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    F1 column is rebuilt and installed so next is to figure out my drag link. I plan on using a speedway tube with the 7 degree tie rods on each side. I’m trying to figure out the easiest way to connect the pitman arm to the hoop style arm on my spindle. As you can see in my pics the pitman arm hits the split bone on the driver side, I think my next move is to flip my split wishbone brackets to move the tierod to the inside, moving my bones in. Thoughts? I’m still not sure it will buy me enough room to clear while turning. Can I cut the pitman arm down so it sits just above the wishbone? Can I heat and bend it out once the bone brackets are flipped? Do I need to heat and bend the steering hoop on the spindle? Trying not to overthink this.
    Thanks[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,580

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How about mounting the wishbone brackets to the inside surface of the frame? Will gain you two inches. You could still leave the rod end facing the outside, cause I think they look better like that. Then heat and bend the pitman arm outward a bit to finish getting whatever clearance you need. Do the bends close to the ends to keep as much length as possible.

    Looks like you might want to screw the rod end in at least a half inch more when you are doing the bracket moving. They should have most of the threads inside the bung, not hanging out in the air.

    Do not cut the pitman drastically shorter, that will really screw with your steering geometry.
     
    alanp561 and Pete Poling like this.
  3. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    I’d heat up the pitman arm and put a jog in it to move it towards the frame a enough to clear the nut on the back side between the pitman arm and the wishbone. Trying to keep the length as close to how it is now as to not effect the ratios to much.

    From the looks of it moving the wishbones in board would still cause interference just in a spot further over. Though I do generally advocate for keeping the wishbones as triangle shape as feasible I just don’t think it’s work that needs to be done right now.

    can you take a photo with a broom stick or something mocked up so we can get a better idea of where things will actually land?
     
  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    To @alchemy ’s point I guess you could just take the rod ends lose from the bracket and push the wishbones in and bolt them into the back side to see how much it really moves them. They won’t seat because of the taper not being there but it would be easy to do and give you an idea of how much room it would or wouldn’t give you
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    Yea I need to move the brackets 1/2” towards the front to get more thread in the bung and I thought I could flip them at the same time. The frame isn’t boxed... how would you get enough weld on the bracket?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  6. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Could still weld them to the outside of the rail and just flip them so the tappered bung faces in not out
     
    Pete Poling likes this.
  7. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,678

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    Consider a 37 to 48 steering box. The pitman arm will be up instead of down and then out of the way. The drag link will then be parallel to the radius rod also, which is desirable.
     
  8. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    It’s closer with the bone on the back side but I think I’ll still have to bend the end of the pitman arm out away from the bone


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    osage orange and Tim like this.
  9. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Cool, not nearly as much of bend needed
     
  10. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,359

    flatford39
    Member

    I had to bend my pitman arm as well. It made it about a quarter inch shorter that I don't think it is a big deal. Heat...do the first bend..let cool..do not squelch, heat again...do the second bend and let cool naturally again.
     
  11. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    So you have to bend both sides? Heat under where the sector shaft goes in and bend out, let cool then heat and bend just above where the tierod goes in back in so the two holes are parallel?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Inked Monkey and Tim like this.
  12. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,580

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you wanted to move the wishbone bracket to the inside of the frame you could box the area about a foot long. I'd also probably recommend a gusset from the hangdown to the under side of the frame. My little bro had a car with similar brackets, and one bent on a hard pothole hit. He replaced with thicker stuff, and a gusset.

    Yes, the eyes of your pitman arm need to be parallel to each other.
     
  13. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    I don’t think it’s gonna go on the inside, that’s a busy area with the clutch linkage and all. So, so far I’m gonna flip the brackets so the tierod comes in from the back side then heat and bend the pitman arm out away from the bone. Thoughts on heating and bending that steering hoop down? It seems like you see them just like I have it or bent down so the tierod comes up from the bottom. Some guys say you need to do it some say it’s fine from everything I’ve read on here[​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  14. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    I think your trying to get the dragnlink about parallel with the wishbone. Dropping the hoop to do that isn’t uncommon
     
  15. irishsteve
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 518

    irishsteve

    I have a pitman arm with 21A-3590-8 on it.It bends inward toward the engine right below the spline a good 2 inches.Can you taper the underside of the spindle steering loop,and run the steering rod from the bottom down to the inside of this pitman? One of those speedway dropped tie rod ends might help on either end if you need more offset.
     
  16. rpu28
    Joined: Jan 17, 2006
    Posts: 106

    rpu28
    Member
    from Austin

    On my AV8 roadster pickup I used the box out of the '40 Ford that donated my front axle, wishbones, spring, etc. You'll need a U-joint in the steering column, but the box fits fine inside the frame rails. Better geometry and less clutter, too.
     
  17. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,650

    Inked Monkey
    Member

    I just went through this on mine. In the link below. Just heat it up and bend like you described above. Out right below the sector shaft and then back in right above the tapered end.
     
    Pete Poling likes this.
  18. 55styleliner
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 508

    55styleliner
    Member

    Make sure you double check your ratio between the pitman arm and the steering arm. I had to shorten my pitman arm quite a bit as that hoop style steering arm is pretty short. I have the same setup. I did have to bend the pitman arm as well.
    18581576-2F72-4F11-B310-07CC928DDED2.jpeg 28D8D0EE-F5D0-4452-B168-58171CABCA0A.jpeg
     
    Tim and Pete Poling like this.
  19. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    I’m sorry but I spent way to much money and time finding, rebuilding, welding on the f1 box to change it now. But thanks for the ideas guys!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    -Brent- likes this.
  20. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 646

    Aaron D.
    Member

    If it were me, I'd flip the wishbone mounts and mount the wishbones on the inside. Heat and bend the pitman arm, it will shorten it a little, but it looks like it should come up a little anyway. Heat and bend the hoop to lower it a little, mount your drag link to the bottom of the hoop. With the pitman shorter and the hoop lower, it should bring the drag link more parallel with the wishbone.
     
    Pete Poling and osage orange like this.
  21. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    I did think about leaving the brackets the way they are and bending the pitman arm in, I’m just not sure about clearance through the full range of travel.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,359

    flatford39
    Member

    I also bent the steering hoop at the backing plate down. Let me see if I can find a pic of my pitman arm. It actually wasn't that hard...you just need a lot of heat and a big pipe wrench. 20190929_135735.jpg
     
    -Brent- and Pete Poling like this.
  23. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

     
  24. tom brown
    Joined: Sep 3, 2008
    Posts: 63

    tom brown
    Member

    consider cowl steering -able to keep straight angles no bends- check out sprint car steering- no play and looks cool
     
  25. sawbuck
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,796

    sawbuck
    Member
    from 06492 ct

    oh no he said cowl steering !
     
    Texas Webb likes this.
  26. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 871

    rusty valley
    Member

    you need to be as close to the frame as possible also so when the wheels are cranked hard left the tire does not hit the drag link
     
    irishsteve likes this.
  27. Model A Gomez
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,106

    Model A Gomez
    Member

    Running about the same setup and bought the reamer to flip my wishbones and bent the pitman arm, barely clears at full right turn. I bought a 37-40 pitman arm since it is longer than the F1 arm and filed the indexing bars out with a triangle file so I could index it where I wanted it. Pictures don't show it real well but are all I have on the computer.
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 177

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My pitman arm is on the inside and I won't have to bend it, but my pitman arm shaft doesn't stick out as much as your's. In this picture Nothing has been tightened. You can't see it from this angle one's everything is tight I'll have about an inch of clearance between the tie rod nut and the bone.

    Phil IMG_0986.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
    irishsteve likes this.
  29. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 57

    Pete Poling
    Member

    The more I think about it, it just seems like it may be easier to bend the arm in towards the frame, use the reamer and run it from the inside out on the pitman arm. With the brackets flipped where the tie rod comes in from the back side, that’s seems like it putting things in a bind and it would be harder to square up the front end to the frame. I gotta go out there and stare at it before I move forward.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  30. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,321

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    You’re over thinking it on the bind man. I’ve got mine split and mounted 4 inches away from each other under the car. The front cross member and spring is getting things square for the most part. The bones just keep it from moving out of square - over simplifying it here but it’s all that matters for this moment
     
    -Brent- likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.