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Technical Tell me about the C3B or C3BX manifold

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Greasyman, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. 1Nimrod
    Joined: Dec 11, 2018
    Posts: 206

    1Nimrod
    Member

    Bullit68; That's what mine is going on 327 in my 68 C10 pick-up. Hope i can get some info about your C3B if you don't mind? What side is the oil fill tube on? And does your C3B have the upper runner's on the driver's side or passenger side? And does it have a notch in the plnum? And does it have duel bolt pattern on the carb base? And does it have the coil mounts? And does it have a chok pull off? I know alot of questions but just trying to see how many variations are out there especially the C3B's and C3BX's that use the older C4B mold (they look more like the C4B's cuz the upper runner's are on the driver's side and are longer and the early C4B's really look more like the early 1960's Chevy Vette intake manifold with four hole's in the top to match the Holley 4bbl carb and have the long dog leg runner's on the driver's side like the C4B's do. They have been mentioned before in the HAMB by other members.) If you have the time to respond to the question it's much appreciated. Thank You, from 1Nimrod
     
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  2. swept57
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 2

    swept57
    Member
    from Akron, OH

    A little hard to read, but Edelbrock ad describing difference between C3B and C3BX.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,468

    belair
    Member

    brad54 did a little comparison on some intakes. You might do a search. I have a C4B
     
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  4. OLSKOOL57
    Joined: Feb 14, 2019
    Posts: 467

    OLSKOOL57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bought new C3BX in 1972 for 1969 DZ 302 engine in my 1955 Chevy Hard Top. 750 Holley DP./LT-1 Cam/12:1 Comp./12 Bolt Posi-5:13 Gear./Muncie 4-Spd.Close Ratio Trans.......Damn that Car was quick( to me anyway)
     
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  5. Tut59
    Joined: Apr 25, 2019
    Posts: 4

    Tut59

    I know this thread is about the C3B. I just picked up a C4B on Ebay for $25.00, seems nobody wanted it. oil fill tube is to the left, doesn't appear to be butchered, a little pittining around the water jackets. Going to put it on my 0.030 over 327, 461 double hump heads, 2.02 int, 1.60 exh, Clay Smith "Tracksmith" cam, 10.1 Keith Black pistons. was thing about a Holley 650cfm on top. All this backed by a M21 with 3.08 and locker going in a 59' Apache.
     
  6. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 1,679

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't recognize the cam , but the only thing I would change is the 3.08 gear. The C4b manifold should work fine with the rest of the engine components. As described, with 28in. tall tires, you should be 81 mph at 3000 rpm. I had a combo like this and always wanted a lower gear. JHMO
     
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  7. 1Nimrod
    Joined: Dec 11, 2018
    Posts: 206

    1Nimrod
    Member

    Tut59; Sounds almost like my build for my 63 C10 pick-up except my 461's are 194/150 and I have 3:73 gears. I was looking for a 650 DP/DF Holley found some in HAMB parts for sale but gentleman backed out at the last minute and decided not to sale one of his two he had up for sale. Now having issues with my 327 rebuild. But I like your set up seems it would be nicer with different gears! But way cool truck, maybe just the right gears if your driving highway speeds alot? Can you put up pics of your C4B for us all to compare with the other ones? Thanks and have fun with your Hot Rod 59 Apache.
    1Nimrod
     
  8. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,693

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    With that 3.08 gearset and a heavy truck the M-21 will make it hard to get rolling and hard on the clutch, a better choice as far as a Muncie is the M-20 with the lower first gear.
    Like others said; a 3.73 gearset is more in line with your combination.
     
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  9. Warren Harrison
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 1

    Warren Harrison

    If you place both the C-3B and the C-3BX side by side, look at the sharp bend on #2 port. Inside the C-3BX manifold, there is a curved radius but inside the C-3B, at that same area there is a sharp edge. I had both at the same time and that's the only difference I could find. You can grind the sharp edge off to make your C-3B into a C-3BX. If you want to use an HEI you can grind on both the intake and the distributor to get enough clearance to set your timing. Be careful to not go through the intake port.
     
  10. RIVERBOATMAN
    Joined: May 18, 2020
    Posts: 5

    RIVERBOATMAN

    I am new here and need some info about the C3BX manifold. Hope you can help me. The BX I have has eight holes for the carburetor studs. Will a Edelbrock carburetor such as the 1403 fit this manifold.
     
  11. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Yes, it will fit. It will use the larger of the two patterns, same as Carter AFB and Holley 4150/4160 4-barrels and the Holley 3160 3-barrel.
    The smaller pattern fits the old Carter WCFB and Rochester 4GC 4-jet carbs.
     
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  12. MIKE STEWART
    Joined: Aug 23, 2016
    Posts: 267

    MIKE STEWART

    Installed mine - with 600 CFM Edelbrock Carb. Much better than stock 4-Jet carb and iron intake. Want to keep period look. 327 39GOLD2.jpg 327 39GOLD1.jpg
     
  13. I have a C4B and C3B that look identical. The C4B has dual carburetor bolt pattern and only one bolt hole for the coil. The C3B has no coil provision. I prefer the waterjacket outlets these manifolds share, but the oil fill tube/thermostat housing angle leave much to be desired. The photo is in low light, but I welded a wiggle in my oil fill tube to clear the upper radiator hose.

    IMG_0720.jpg

    IMG_0724.jpg
     
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  14. RIVERBOATMAN
    Joined: May 18, 2020
    Posts: 5

    RIVERBOATMAN

    I am also going for the nostalgia look. My filler tube leans toward the drivers side and has the platform for the divorced choke spring and housing. I haven't found the choke mechanism yet but I'm looking. Any body know where I should be looking for that bugger? I'm going to build a 350 engine with Trick Flow DHC-175 double hump heads for that look.
    EDELBROCK C3BX -A.jpg
     
  15. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

  16. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Speedway Motors is also selling a retro aluminum Double Hump head, it is cheaper than the TrickFlow but I have no idea where it comes from/who makes it. It isn't from Trickflow, casting is different.

    They flow about the same as a modern Vortec head, but the TrickFlow is a good bit better by 30cfm at .300", 400", and .500++ lifts.
    Speedway head has a modern chamber though, could work good for a guy who is going to hand port them.
     
  17. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 5,298

    -Brent-
    Member

    Mike, that look of a setup like yours really has me wanting to stay single 4bbl with an earlier Vette air cleaner over dual quads. I know it sounds crazy to go single over 2x but I dig the simplicity (and they run well, too!).
     
  18. Wish I could remember my twisted intake.

    You guys got me looking at these C3BX's .. .. but my knife edged, twisted base, intake was bitch'n on a 2.05 angle plug, 366 13:1 SBC.

    Wanna' say Weiand Tarantula or somethin' .. but damn it.. 30 years !!! Did have a draft tube ..
     
  19. Another variation. The one I posted has the same thermostat orientation, but different waterjacket holes. Mike Stewart shows one with the same waterjacket holes as mine, but different thermostat orientation.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. RIVERBOATMAN
    Joined: May 18, 2020
    Posts: 5

    RIVERBOATMAN

    Eric, the first link took me to some cooling system sealer. Can you re-post that link?
    I took a look at the speedway intake 9103782462. The info was a good read. Seems that to use these heads
    I have to use roller rocker arms, no choice. Since I'm only building a driver engine, I wanted to stay away from
    the rollers in favor of the original stamped rockers. The Trick Flow DHC-175 TFS-30210002 heads don't have the obvious raised area for the roller rockers to clear the original valve covers and also I'm not sure the TF heads are compatible with stamped rockers either. I'm going to need a serious talk with someone at TF to see if these heads are going to work for me.

    I've been all over the internet looking for Specs for this C3BX but so far have come up empty. Does anyone have any info such as what the port flow is and size of the ports? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Here are some other photos of the C3BX intake.
    EDELBROCK C3BX -D.jpg EDELBROCK C3BX -E.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  21. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Whoops, sorry about that, I didn't pre-view the post before i hit "enrer". Here is cover and choke stat kit, I don't know which rod might be correct or if you'll have to reconfigure(bend) one for it to fit your carb and a C3BX intake. Third link will be just the "Stat. I've just made my own rod using welding rod in the past.
    https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1970/chevrolet/nova/parts/k0110.html
    https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1970/chevrolet/nova/parts/k0109.html
    https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Rochester-Quadrajet-Divorced-Choke-Thermostat_p_533.html

    I'm not sure what you mean by "raised area for roller rockers to clear". Are you talking about a raised valve cover rail?? Both heads are machined for screw-in rocker arm studs and pushrod guideplates, and place the rocker studs in the same place as factory heads, no different than stock heads with studs pulled and stud bosses machined down for screw-in studs and guideplates... studs end up in the same plane and at the same height. No requirement to have to use roller rocker arms, just most folks do. With a raised valve cover rail, then roller arms will fit under stock finned covers.
    Stock rocker arms can be used on either of those heads without a problem and fit under the valvecovers.
    Bot companies might have moved everything up on the heads and require you to use +.100" longer pushrods, that will be something you'll have to check during a test fit.

    Looks like both companies have raised the valvecover rail from stock height, Speedway a little higher than TFS has, maybe 1/8" more than TFS by the look of it.

    If your not going to do any port work, the TFS head flows a lot better than the Speedway head
     
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  22. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Edelbrock "Tarantula".
    It later was redeveloped and updated and lost the twisted carb pad, which was found to not work(looked cool though)and designated "Scorpion"....which was updated and became the "Victor Jr" #2075.
    The Tarantula was a development of the original Edelbrock twisted "Torker".
     
  23. RIVERBOATMAN
    Joined: May 18, 2020
    Posts: 5

    RIVERBOATMAN

    --------------

    I understand what you are saying Eric. I presently have a Carter AFB 3721SB that has an update kit in it for this alky gas we now have. It's suppose to be a 500 cfm carb and it is designed for the hot air choke system. I had already bought the pipes a few years ago as I was going for the nostalgic look but then thought I might buy a more up to date carb which would use the electric choke system. I'm wanting to upgrade the engine with new pistons for more compression along with the 64cc TF heads. Along with this C3BX intake my thinking was that I might need to upgrade to maybe a 600 cfm carb.

    I haven't been able to find any info on how to link the divorced choke to the Carter AFB or the Edelbrock yet as I don't think they were ever designed for that system. Still scratching my head on this one.

    On the TF heads, yes I was talking about the raised area for the valve covers. I haven't found any stamped steel rockers that I can use with the 7/16" rocker studs so I may have to switch the studs to 3/8" and use my original NOS 1.5 stamped rockers GM 3974290.

    I have a few decisions to make with my engine build. I am planning to install the Vintage Air system which say there might be a problem with interference with valve covers on certain style aluminum heads. If there is a problem with that raised area for the valve covers then it's looking like I just might have to use the original stamped steel rocker arms and have a machine shop mill the raised area off to lower the valve covers. I hope this is making sense. Trying to stay nostalgic does have it's disadvantages as it is seeming like it's going
    to be a lot more work.
     
  24. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 404

    Ericnova72
    Member

    OK Riverboatman, I get your scenario now. Yeah, you could mill the valvecover rail on the aluminum heads if needed.
    Elgin makes 7/16" stud stock style rocker arms, call then "Nitro", like nitro-carburized that Crane used to sell. The circle track "claimer engine" and Bomber/Street Stock guys use them.
    You can get them in sets of 8, so you can make split ratio sets, or sets of 16. 1.5 or 1.6 ratio.
    Page 57 in the Elgin Pro-Stock catalog.
    https://www.elginind.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Elgin-2018-ProStock-Catalog.pdf
    They also sell a cryogenically treated version too, for max strength and wear resistance, called "Black Ice"
    https://www.elginind.com/wp-content...lackIce-4pg-2018-ProStock-Insert-Brochure.pdf
    If your not getting into some crazy high lift , high rpm solid flat tappet cam or a solid roller cam you really don't need the 7/16" studs and the rockers to go with it though. 3/8" will do the job for anything hydraulic or any of the stock mechanical cams.

    I don't know what you could do or need to hook the divorced choke to the AFB or Edelbrock....The Holley I had hooked to one was a L-6210 650 cfm spreadbore Quadra-Jet replacement and it had the provision for a direct hook up on the choke side linkage.
    Electric choke might be a better option for you.
     
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  25. Starlinerdude
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 84

    Starlinerdude
    Member
    from Washington

    There was a whole series of intakes edelbrock made back in the 60's that had that style part number,B4B.R4B,O4B,P4B,F4B,C4B,F427,C427,they were all generally considered to be superior to the later performer series of the 70's,but inferior to the later performer rpm series.They are very popular with the vintage crowd and bring better money now than they used to,some such as the F427,R4B,B4B and maybe the C427 a lot more money.
     
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  26. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,181

    6sally6
    Member

    P & B.........what happens if you do that (power notch deal) to other intakes?? Like say..........a FoMoCo or MoPar?
    Any down side to cutting the notch? AND....just how bigga notch we talking?!
    Thanx
    6sally6
     
  27. OLSKOOL57
    Joined: Feb 14, 2019
    Posts: 467

    OLSKOOL57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I guess I am an “Ole Vintage Guy“too. I recently purchased a C3BX manifold from a nice guy in Pennsylvania off EBay. Paid a lot for it, most of you probably would think I was crazy for doing it. That aside, it is as nice as the one I purchased new in 1972. I cannot remember what I did with that one after removing it from my ‘69 DZ302 engine and 4spd.in my ‘55 Chevy in 1979 and going BBC and 400 turbo. This one has oil fill tube to driver’s side and no choke provision at all and Single Bolt pattern/with notch in center, It will go on my Small Block In my ‘57 Chevy with Camel Hump Heads and a 3310 750cfm Holley Carb. Will be looking for a 60’s “Vintage Look “
     

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    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  28. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 5,298

    -Brent-
    Member

    Does anyone have one for sale?
     
  29. RIVERBOATMAN
    Joined: May 18, 2020
    Posts: 5

    RIVERBOATMAN

    Brent, I saw seven C3## series intakes on ebay yesterday. You might check them out.

    Have been looking and still have not found any specs on the C3BX manifold. Apparently, Edelbrock doesn't have any info online that would be helpful. I did run across a thread about one guy saying he called Edelbrock and they apparently didn't have any info available for the C3BX. Go figure, they built them but didn't archive the specs?

    I'm still stuck on the TF heads.They are advertised as having the 175cc intake runner volume but still don't know how well the C3BX runners will mate up to them in air flow capability without some Edelbrock specs.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  30. That is WAY nicer than the C3BX I bought recently for my kids project. I found this one on Craigslist and got it for a decent price, but it has had some "customizing" done at least as far as someone scratching some numbers that appear to be a date and a "400" in it. I guess it gives it some character...

    IMG_9863[1].JPG
     
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