TECH...well sorta... JAG IFS into mid fifties F100

My progress is sure a little at a time! But it's still progress. Finished up the bags today. Real happy with how it turned out. Bags are straight up and down and lift straight up without any lean or tilting like it was before. It easily lifts the suspension to the bump stops. I may look at it some more and see if I can get away with shorter bump stops so it could lift a bit more. But it sure drops. I'm not sure if the suspension bottoms out or the internal bumpstops in the bags is what is keeping it from going lower. Either way, it's plenty low. It will drop even more when I put the Centerlines on. These Jag wheels are 16" with a 75 profile tire. I'll get 1.5" - 2" more with the 15" BFG's I'm gonna run. As it sits with the monster 16" Jag wheels and tires on, it measured up this way.
Center of the fenderwell Lifted - 29" Dumped - 23.25"
Jag crossmember (middle) Lifted - 9" Dumped - 2.75"
Bottom of my grille Lifted - 10.5" Dumped - 3.25"
Bottom of Frame at the grille Lifted - 13.5 Dumped - 7"
The bag air inlet actually lined up!!!

 

A video of the truck.

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/saput/?action=view&current=VID_20120710_185927.mp4

 

Nice work!

 

Thanks Orn. I appreciate the help you gave me. I really had no idea what bags to use and how bags even mounted up in the first place. Your pictures really got my install going. I just kept the same basic idea and made the parts to position the bags how I wanted them in the spring pockets. Now on to the shock mounts. One mistake I made when stripping down the donor Jag was not measuring the distance between the upper and lower shock mounts on the XJ6 I had. If I new the factory set distance, I could just fab up my upper mounts off my frame to sit the same distance. Anyone know what it is? I assume it's best to use that distance as i plan to just buy replacement Jag shocks since my truck will be close to the same weight.

 

Re jag shock mounts.
Unless you at the same ride height as the original Jag
then the mount position is not necessarily going to be right for you.
Just a thought I throw in there.
Nice work on fitting the bags.
I need to do that now.

Here is a pic of how I did my shock mounts.
Square box section off the front crossmember.
If I take out the front end it all comes with it as one unit.

 

I guess I can just set the suspension to my optimal right height. Then compress the mounted shock and measure the fully compressed and fully uncompressed position of the shock end. Figure out the middle of that range and fab my mounts to that height. Am I missing anything? My Jag front is rubber mounted so I plan on a flat mount up top with a single hole for the shock stud to stick through. I imagine Jag used this style upper mount for the ability to flex with the rest of the suspension. Thanks for the help and advice.

 

You want to bias the mounted stroke length toward the bump side of the travel (IE, leave more than half the rod sticking out).

Not a lot more, call it 60/40 (out/in).

Reason being, if you bottom the shock in extension, the only thing that happens is you yank that wheel off the ground. The mount is only seeing the weight of the drooping suspension on that corner.

However, if you bottom the shock in compression, you very well could bend the mount (and the shock itself), because the mount will be seeing the entire weight of the car on that corner, plus the impact loading from whatever caused the suspension to compress that far in the first place.

TL;DR version: Better to bottom the shock on the way out than on the way in, so leave a little extra shaft sticking out.

 

So you're saying that if my shock strock length is 10", don't set it at 5"in/5" out. Set it at 6" out/4" in? Wouldn't a properly set up shock be able to travel the length of the suspenion either direction without bottoming out?

 

this is what i would think too but what do i know. if you bottom out and the distance from bottom shock mount to top shock mount is say 8 inches, then air up all the way and you have say 18 inches (prob way off just guessing for sake of under standing) then it would make sense to me to get a shock that collapses to 7 inches and extends to 19 inches. so you would never reach the end point of the shock. john

 

I did my shock mounts the same way as LIFESTYLZ did and reuse the stock Jag shocks as they were in good condition.
I had no close-up pics but you got the idea.

 

Your air up and air down points are probably at the extreme or more than most standard shocks go. Especially the Jag OEM ones. They never intended that much variation in up/down. JM2CW

 

Yes, that is what I am saying.

Depends on which shock you use, and if the stock bump rubbers are still in place, etc.

It is entirely possible to find yourself in a situation where you have more possible suspension articulation than you have available shock travel.

For instance, say that Jag front end has 12" of total travel, but your stock Jag shock only has 7" or 8" of travel? The factory would have biased the shock to the compression side like I suggested, and then installed bump rubbers to stop the suspension travel before it bottomed out the shock.

In order to do it like you're suggesting is proper, you'd have to dig through catalogs at the parts store until you found a shock with 12" of travel, and then hope it has the right valving to give you a decent ride.

It is very common on racing cars to have more possible suspension travel than you have shock travel, because racing dampers really only come in a few stroke lengths (5", 6", 7", and 9" in the not ridiculously priced varieties).

That being the case, you have to work within the limitations of your parts.

Maybe you'll get lucky and find that your shocks have the perfect stroke, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

Excellent thread Tall Paul, Can you upload some of the shock mounts for me please. Hope you don't mind I copied your treatment and it came out sweet. Cheers D

 

So if it was you, how would you go about measuring seting up my shocks. My shocks(the Jag shocks) have a stroke of 6.25". Should I bottom out the suspension and compress the shock until it's bottomed out, then back it off a half inch or so and fab my mount there. Then raise it all the way up and see if the shock reaches it's fully extended range?? Or am I better setting my suspension at ride height(Jag Xmbr 6.3" off the ground) and doing the 60 out/40in setup from there?
Yes, I'm making this more tougher than I should. But the more I think about it, the more I'm second guessing myself.

 

I would set the car at ride height, then set the shock to 60% of the shaft sticking out, and build the mount to suit that condition.

This is how we do our race car damper mounts, and it works very well.

The only difference is that for oval track cars, we know that the lefts will be seeing more rebound/droop travel than the rights, so we tend to lead that a bit (maybe going 50/50 on those, etc).

That's my design opinion, but it's your car/truck. The final call is up to you.

 

Well, you had me more concerned with the shock bottoming out before the suspension. So I dropped the suspension as far as it would go. Let the air out that is. Then fabbed up a quick mount to hold the shock in place to test throught the full travel. With the suspension fully dropped, the mount holds the shock about 3/4" from being bottomed out. It's just enough to be able to compress the shock and slip it out of the upper mount. Then at full lift, up against the upper bumpstops, the shock reaches its fully extended point the same time as it hits the bumps. The suspension can cycle through its full range without the shock holding it up. But, at the fully up position, the shock is done. So now I question myself as to what extreme I will ever reach. If the suspension ever bottoms out to the point it runs out of room, the shock will still have a tiny bit more breathing room. But if I ever hit my upper bumps.... the shock may bottom out or fully extend at the same time. It's one or the other. Or I could adjust it a bit on the bottom side to have the shock 1/4"-1/2" play left, and that should give me about the same bit of shock left on the upper side of my travel. Any thoughts?

 

The way you have it now sounds like it will work just fine, unless you plan to drive on it with the suspension all the way extended like that (I don't know why you would).

If you want to move it down a bit so that you're not hard against the end of the shock in either direction, that's fine, won't hurt a thing.

You shouldn't come close to ether end of the stroke under actual driving driving conditions, so you'll be fine either way.

You have to bottom a shock out pretty hard to bend it or the mount. Think hitting a giant pot hole or a giant speed bump at 50 mph.

Short of that, the suspension shouldn't ever compress or extend far enough to bottom the shock.

You'll be fine.

 

Everything lines up and is level. The mount will wrap around the outside of the frame and have a support gusset. I just havn't decided on how I'm gonna finish the front and or backside of the arms. Just box it all in or do something a little different. Gonna stare at it and think about it a few days. Also deciding if these should be bolt on or just welded to the frame.
I'm happy with them though, they seem to position the shock perfect as it moves from bump to bump. 1 more problem solved.

 

Finally finished the shock towers. It's been 100+ and being bundled up to weld sucks but what's a little sweat when you make progress.
I'm gonna tack them on for now. I've been using .035 flux-core all this time and have been holding off finish welding anything on the frame as far as suspension and such goes until I get a gas setup for the mig. I'm moving to the rear now. Gotta get the leaf springs mounted up. I will fab up the front spring hangers but am now thinking about using leaf spring sliders rather than shackles. I really like the way they look and it will mount the rear spring eye higher than I could have with shackles. I'm not sure I will find any sliders that will work with my Explorer leaf springs though. Seems they are all made for chrysler springs. I'll keep searching or maybe use different springs. My Explorer leafs are 2.5" wide but the bushing sleeve is 3" wide. The bushing diameter is 1.75". The sliders I've found, Afco, Speedway, Summit... all have a 1" bushing for Chrysler spring eyes. If I can't find any, maybe I can have a couple reducer sleeves made up that are 1.75" OD/ 1" ID. press them into the spring eye and them the solid slider bushing into the sleeve. It's a thought.

 

Looks good!!!!
I've been helping out a couple of my Road Devils Brothers, they are putting Jag ifs in a '53 Chevy truck and a '50 f-1 at the same time. They welded theirs in but notched the frame rails for drive height....they are also running airbags up front and bagged truck arms out back. You might want to check into truck arms to use with the Exploder rear. They're not that hard to fab up and the ride and handling are incredible....NASCAR still uses them so that says a lot about a 50 year old design.

 

I didn't want to spend too much on my rear as I really hope to rebuild and re-gear the Jag setup I have sitting here and install it. I had decided to just use the Explorer leafs I have in a simple and cheap parallel leaf spring configuration. But then I had to make it a little different and ended up spending as much as I would have on another set of bags. I think I know what the truck arms are. Wish you would have hit me up sooner. Here's what I'm doing. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719258

 

Just wondering... are the bolt circles for the Jag and Ford axles the same?

 

Jag is 5 on 4.75, so not likely.

 

I have the 5x4.75 Chevy pattern on the front and 5x4.5 Ford pattern on the Explorer 8.8 out back.

 

The bolt pattern on the Jag can be redrilled to 5X4.5 Ford pattern but it will take a machine shop to do it. The studs have to be removed, the holes welded shut, then redrilled to the proper pattern. They faced the outside (where the wheel bolts on) and the inside (where the stud seats). If this is the route you want to go, you may as well have them check the fit with your wheels to see if there are any clearance problems associated with the diameter of the hubs.

 

subscribed,,,,,,

 

most aftermarket wheels are multi-pattern. even better carry a multi-pattern spacesaver spare. great build so far.