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TECH...well sorta... JAG IFS into mid fifties F100

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tall Paul, Feb 28, 2010.

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  1. 65-deluxe
    Joined: Sep 12, 2011
    Posts: 10

    65-deluxe
    Member

    Hi Folks , sorry to butt in again - im designing an air set up for my truck - using Jaguar xjs front and rear - My question is simple really .
    Could I replace the standard shocks on a Jaguar IRS with air shocks and use that to drop truck when parked - It would allow me to use original Jaguar suspension unit without modification and use the original Jaguar mounting points rather than fabricate my own .
    I guess Jaguar spending millions on the back end would be better than my attempt .

    Thanks Jon

    Thinking monroe air max shocks
     
  2. stevie.t
    Joined: Dec 26, 2009
    Posts: 18

    stevie.t
    Member
    from uk

    in a word no, shocks are not made to hold a car up, you will need air bags,
     
  3. 65-deluxe
    Joined: Sep 12, 2011
    Posts: 10

    65-deluxe
    Member

    Thanks Stevie - Thought it was probably a bit too simple to be able to work .
     
  4. PFF
    Joined: Oct 28, 2002
    Posts: 186

    PFF
    Member
    from UK

    Bags in a Jag is easy all you need to do is remove the centre spring cup, drill 2 holes in the top and weld up the centre on the lower spring plate and drill a hole for the bag mount. Dampers I run KYB on the stock lower mount and make a top mount. Iv done a few of these but dont have many pictures, next one I do Ill do a tec on it.
    You can see in the first picture the spring cup, drill out the spot welds and remove. This one had a bit of rust but you can see the centre factory hole the air line goes through this, you need to drill 2 holes for the bag.
    Pete
     

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  5. Orn
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,064

    Orn
    Member

    This is how I did it. The bags are Slam Re6.

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  6. 65-deluxe
    Joined: Sep 12, 2011
    Posts: 10

    65-deluxe
    Member

    Thanks for the pictures guys - Orm - how deep are the top mounting brackets you made ? Nice Buick BTW
     
  7. Orn
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,064

    Orn
    Member

    The cups are 2" .
    Thanks but if you mean the coupe its a 47 olds not a buick.
     
  8. 65-deluxe
    Joined: Sep 12, 2011
    Posts: 10

    65-deluxe
    Member

    yes I mean the coupe - did I mention im stupid !!!!
     
  9. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Can someone tell me a bit about the wheel studs on the Jag hubs? I've decided to not have the hubs machined down so I can fit my Centerline wheels onto the Jag frontend. I have toyed with having the hubs taken down, opening up the center hole on my wheels, or running spacers so that my wheels don't even sit over the hub shoulders. I have decided to go with 1/4" billet spacers. Problem is that the wheel studs on the Jag hubs are only about an inch long. I figure I should pop them out and replace them with a longer set, 1/4" longer to make up for the spacer. My wheels use shank style lugs so it should be fine with the spacers. Should I ask for longer Jag studs? Ford studs???? Or pop one out and use to compare with the replacements? No clue where to even find them. My Ford Explorer 8.8 rear axle I'm using has the same threads and are longer but do not have threads all the way to the end. Not sure where to find what I need. Wheel shop? Brake shop? Online?
     
  10. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Most regular parts stores have them, and I don't mean Auto Zone style places. I suggest pressing one of the original ones out and taking it with you. I had no problem finding them when I replaced them, was a standard stud, can't remember the size but they had a drawer full.
     
  11. chevsen
    Joined: Feb 10, 2005
    Posts: 34

    chevsen
    Member

    Start with a Dorman catalog (online, do a search) that has wheel studs. Last time I looked, they provide the specs for all of the studs that they sell. Determine what stud fits the Jag, and find a longer stud that shares the same shoulder specs. I am hazy on this, but I seem to recall searching Dorman for this very thing (a longer Jag stud) a couple of years ago and not being able to come up with a suitable donor???.....YMMV.
     
  12. chevsen
    Joined: Feb 10, 2005
    Posts: 34

    chevsen
    Member

    OK, here is a link to a 2006 catalog that shows the start of the 1/2" wheel studs. According to Dorman, 610-258 is the stock stud for certain XJ6s, but the year breaks are a bit strange and don't seem to cover the series III cars, not sure if it is accurate. Best bet would be to pull one of your studs and measure the knurl diameter and go from there. If you page through this stuff you will see that there are a couple of long studs with knurl diameters a bit higher than the purported stock Jag that you can adapt to your hubs.

    http://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/hardware2006/143-148_Sec10_Part3.pdf

    Offhand, I do not know what the proper press fit spec is for knurled wheel studs. I am sure lots of HAMB machinists could help there.

    Screw in studs are also an option, but that is a bit more fabrication.
     
  13. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    All that does is confuse me. I'm just gonna take one into a shop and see where it takes me.
     
  14. ford5t1
    Joined: Aug 30, 2006
    Posts: 62

    ford5t1
    Member
    from usa

    Hey guys what a great thread! i'm going to do a jag swap in my '65 f100 due to this thread! also keeping my airride looks realy straight forward to fabricate this. for now i have bought a '71 frontaxle and a '69 rear axle that has lock. both will be going in but first upfront and then get the truck registeredn so the first things to do is to clean up and cut all the unnesecary brackets of and get ot measured into the frame. i read a lot about this and many f100 conversions were done having set the jag 1.25" forward to get it in the midle of the fender. is this also the case for a '65?
    Keep up the great postings and maybe i can make a humblecontribution.

    see ya

    twan
     
  15. 49willard
    Joined: Nov 2, 2006
    Posts: 93

    49willard
    Member
    from Maine

    I believe that if you have a 1971 Jag front suspension it will be series 1 and have the 3 puck calipers. Unfortunately, parts for those calipers are hard to find. The 4 puck calipers are the much more common and found on the later series. You can change out the spindles and calipers to the 4 puck (unfortunately the spindles are a bit different to accommodate the 4 puck calipers). The good news is that the 3 puck calipers as cores are desirable. I think that maybe they are also used on the XKE. The really early Series 1 I believe had solid rather than vented front rotors
    I have installed but am not yet driving a Jag IFS into my 49 F-1. Installation of the Jag IFS into an F-1 is about the easiest swap that I know about using the jag since the frame rails are pinched in at the front for the F-1 to 32" outside dimension such that the front suspension mounts (bisquits) fall right under the frame rails while the later F100 are frame rails are straight front to back (not pinched in) at 34" outside dimensions. This just means that you will have to do a little frame or Jag crossmember cutting to fit the Jag up into your frame.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
  16. PFF
    Joined: Oct 28, 2002
    Posts: 186

    PFF
    Member
    from UK

    On my 57 I had to narrow and kick the frame rails, you can get the clip in by notching the outside edge, I want mine low so had to do the extra work
     

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  17. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Well I'm gonna make the swap over to the Slam Specialties SS6 bags. I'll do something very similar to what Orn showed us above. I plan on pulling the coils out and rigging up some shims/blocks to sit the suspension to its correct ride height. Do the upper and lower control arms sit level? Is that what I'm shooting for here? I'm wanting to get the truck sitting right so that I can start working on my motor and trans mounts and get that SBC off my garage floor!!!
    Can someone give me some advice on pulling these coils?? Is there an easy method? I was thinking of putting my jack under the bottom plate and lifting the front end up. Removing the bolts that hold the bottom plate on. With jack stands under the frame, start lowering the jack/control arm... hoping it slowly releases the coil so I can pull it out. Am I missing something here???
     
  18. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,297

    mustangsix
    Member

    My XJS manual says that normal ride height is 6" from the ground to the crossmember. The lower control arms are angled slightly downward at that height.

    You can lower the coils out the bottom, but you need to guide the spring pan so that it doesn't release all cockeyed on you. Get four long 3/8" fine thread bolts and use those to guide the plate as you lower the jack.

    The other option is to use a long threaded rod instead of a jack. There's a hole at the top of the spring pocket and thru the spring pan where it can fit thru and you can just slowly unscrew the coil.

    Also, these cars can be lowered by using spacers between the spring pan and the lower arm, too. 1/2" of spacer will lower the car about 1". Use longer Grade 8 bolts to hold the pan on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  19. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
    Member

    easy way to remove springs is 4 long threaded rods in place of the spring bolts put a chain around frame and under jack.

    jack up so chain is tight, remove bolt and put rod in, after 4 rods are in take out other bolts and lower jack.


    there is too much tension on spring to try and lower it out with out the chain around the frame
     
  20. Orn
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,064

    Orn
    Member

    When I remove my coils I use a 2x2” wood beam standing up on top of the frame and up against the garage ceiling and then a jack under the bottom plate and lift it to take out pressure and then remove the bolts and slowly lower the jack and the coil falls down nice and easy.
    Maybe a little “low tech” but it works nice. ;)
     
  21. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Hey slag, is there enough room on the lower spring plate for the Jack pad and the 4 rods???
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  22. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Thanks for the advice gents. I was able to get the coils out without even a bloody knuckle. I had some long bolts from the Jag I parted out but they were too short to let the tension all the way out!!! So I dropped a couple rods through the two bolt holes next to the shocks and removed all the bolts and lowered the jack. Worked like a charm. Also used the chain arount the jack and crossmember. The block I used between the jack pad and bottom plate had nails I put in it to keep the block locked in position. It seemed to work well for being such crude engineering. Or, on the spot engineering as I like to call it. No need to make a fancy one to use only once.

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    Looks better without springs in there!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  23. ford5t1
    Joined: Aug 30, 2006
    Posts: 62

    ford5t1
    Member
    from usa

    looking good!!!!!

    hoping to get the jag preped in the next coupla e off days.

    see ya

    twan
     
  24. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Anyone find a good place to buy a complete rebuild kit for the Jag front suspensions? I did see a couple all poly bushing kits available. What all is there to freshen' it up? Complete bushing kit. Tie Rods? Ball joints? I already plan for new rotors and pads.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  25. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 981

    toddc
    Member

  26. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Thanks. Kinda hoping I can find a place in the US so I don't get raped on shipping.
     
  27. PaulD
    Joined: Mar 25, 2012
    Posts: 48

    PaulD
    Member

    Your probably best to steer clear of the urethane bushes and go for good old fashioned rubber. I was advised to go that way with mine.


    Cheers Paul.

    Love your work BTW you won't regret the jag conversion.
     
  28. HASR
    Joined: Feb 13, 2008
    Posts: 45

    HASR
    Member
    from Illinois

    I've been told the opposite. I've always used polyurethane because they handle better and have less deflection than rubber. I guess it's "Six of one, half dozen of the other." It's all in personal preference I guess. Does anyone have experience with both?
     
  29. Poly bushings "ring" when impacted by road irregularities.

    I recently replaced a set of poly bushings on my truck with a Dakota front end, it rode very well and did not do anything I would consider annoying as far as harshness was concerned even with 45 series tires. But I kept melting the bushings out. So I machined a few races from 8620 and used needle bearings and Torrington thrust bearings to replace the poly bushings all together. I was always told that the ride would become more harsh because there would be zero deflection where rubber and poly would allow some.

    Well, the opposite was true. It is much quieter, noticeably so. Literally on par with OE rubber bushings. That's when I figured out what was going on. I'm making my move away from Poly bushings for suspension use. I still use them in rear suspensions but not for much longer.
     
  30. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member


    Rubber OEM style bushes is what I'm after. Although I've read that the steering rack is where you want the poly bushings. I've just had no luck finding an outfit that sells a complete rebuild kit for these frontends here in the US. With so many people using them, where are they getting their parts?
     
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