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Technical TECH WEEK - Rattle Can Lacquer Paint Job

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by patmanta, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    There seemed to be some interest in covering this subject when I mentioned it over on the SURE COULD USE A TECH WEEK thread, so here goes.

    The idea here is to paint a car reasonably well, with Lacquer Rattle Cans, not so much as cheap as possible, but to do it fairly cheap and with what you can get off the shelf at the auto parts store. There seems to be a ton of info on Rust Oleum Enamel Base Rattle Can Paint Jobs already and I want a paint job that can be lacquered over down the line with relative ease. Though I do have spray guns and a compressor, I don't want to get into that with this round of painting, and again, that's something already well covered. Check THE PAINTING AT HOME IN THE DRIVEWAY OR GARAGE THREAD for more info on that.

    I'm using my 1917 Dodge Brothers Touring Car as the subject for this project because it's going to have to sit another Winter and I'd like to give it a preservative coat. I plan to brush it down and use Dupli-Color products to accomplish this.

    Additionally, I will be painting outside, uncovered, in my yard. This is my situation with this car and I know there's probably a lot of guys with a similarly limited set of options available. Though not quite a worst case scenario for trying to make your car look nice, it's about as basic as I think you can get without resorting to enamel or laying latex house paint in an apartment building parking lot.

    The plan is as follows:

    1. Buy Rattle can Rust Converter, Lacquer Primer, & White/Black Laquer Paint locally.
    2. Get it rolling and out into the yard.
    3. Brush the rust down.
    4. Follow the directions on the can.
    EDIT:
    Jump ahead to the Parts List HERE
    Jump ahead to the first round of results HERE
    Jump ahead to the Eastwood Rust Converter application HERE
    Jump ahead to primer and evidence of failure HERE

    Jump ahead to rattle can priming bare fresh metal HERE
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    CrazyUncleHarry and bct like this.
  2. luckythirteenagogo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2012
    Posts: 1,255

    luckythirteenagogo
    Member

    This sounds good and is something that hasn't been covered a million times. I painted an O/T bike with Dupli Color's Paint Shop lacquer, but I shot it out of a gun. This is going to be good. Consider me a subscriber....
     
    patmanta likes this.
  3. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,746

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Let the fumes begin!
     
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  4. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 437

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Rattle can lacquer can require a bit of luck to get it to lay down smooth. Most people probably already know this but lacquer dry time is easily affected by temperature. That is why most brand of automotive lacquer has available multiple different thinners with different characteristics to adjust the drying time to the temp at the time it is sprayed.

    Rattle can lacquers tend to just use the medium drying thinner, not fast for cold weather and not slow for hot weather, just medium for general purpose. If it is too hot outside, the paint will dry too fast and not flow out. If is too cold outside the paint will dry too slow and you will get a lot of dust in the paint. Neither is a show stopper, just something to you may have to deal with and you may want to get enough paint to put extra coats on to be able to color sand and buff if you don't get an acceptable finish.
     
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  5. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Thanks @luckythirteenagogo, I'll try not to disappoint.

    OK, so, I've started the purchasing process. I went through that eBates site since Advance Auto Parts gives a 5.5% rebate through them and I use it anyway. They also had a good discount code (A124) that I used for $25 off $75 purchase, so, all-in, for $85 worth of paint and U-Bolts, I've spent $63.43, (5.5% of which I'll get back). This info is probably not going to be relevant deep into the future, but right now it's a thing and it'll save you guys some coin if you choose to follow along. They only have ONE can of White, which is going to be an issue.

    Here's what I got:

    Item Qty. Pick Up or Shipping Price Total
    [​IMG]
    DuplicolorRust Fix, Rust Converter, Black, 10.25 oz. Aerosol
    Part No RF129

    [​IMG]
    DuplicolorSandable Primer, Black, 12 oz. Aerosol
    Part No DAP1698


    [​IMG]
    DuplicolorPremium Lacquer, Gloss Black, 12 oz. Aerosol
    Part No DAL1677


    [​IMG]
    DuplicolorPrimer Sealer Primer Sealer, Gray, 12 oz. Aerosol
    Part No DAP1699


    [​IMG]
    DuplicolorPremium Lacquer, Gloss White, 12 oz. Aerosol
    Part No DAL1675
     
    -Brent- likes this.
  6. Go it in a closed space, lacquer is a righteous head. :D
     
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  7. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    That's why I'm jumping on it this weekend. We're still getting reasonably warm days right now. It's actually gone right from summer into Fall up my way. Night/Day 60's/90's to 40's/70's and the pollen seems to have finally dropped off some. I'm not seeing as much dust in the sunbeams anyway. So I think NOW is the time I'll have the best chance of success with this paint.

    Failure IS an option though, as it is still a result. This car isn't going on the road any time soon, so if it needs to get stripped back down, so be it, I'll document it either way for others' reference.
     
  8. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,942

    missysdad1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I love ya' ta' pieces, Patmanta, but all the rattle cans and rust converters in the world aren't going to help your Dodge. It's got deep pitting that surface treatments aren't going to stabilize. The only way to properly prepare your car is to sand blast it and then begin with bare metal and a lacquer-friendly primer. Trying to make do with a shortcut will only lead to disappointment later on. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
     
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  9. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 6,454

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    About 12 years ago I painted my 32 Ford PU with Krylon satin black over a grey urethane base primer. Turned out great after I figured out how to get rid of the streaks. Took a lot of cans of paint. (around 30) I blew a lot in the air and I put on a number of coats plus the inside and outside of the box takes a lot.and it was full fendered. My shop temp was about 60 so it flowed well and was in winter so no bugs. Held up well and was even good enough to rate a 3 page feature in Rod & Custom. I sold the truck to a guy in England and sent along a case of paint for future use. Be sure to wear a good mask as the propellant is toxic in large doses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
    patmanta likes this.
  10. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Just painted this yesterday and the day before . Probably three coats the first day and lightly sanded the next day with 250 and another three coats then. Probably sanded a bit too soon but worked okay. I was lucky that we had a warm but overcast day yesterday for the final spray. I used one can of flat black (my local Ace hardware store didn't stock Lacquer primer) then probably three cans of gloss.
    The center is masked because it's paint was good and I didn't want to loose the striping.
    IMG_0405.jpg IMG_0404.jpg DSCN0006.jpg
     
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  11. louisb
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 987

    louisb
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  12. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Like I said, failure IS an option ;) I'm not so much going for a finished paint job as far as the 17 DB is concerned, more of a preservative coat than a show coat. There's metal work with dents and a couple cracks that need to be done which will mean stripping at least those areas in the future anyway. The pitting is indeed bad on the springs and ironwork but the sheet metal isn't as bad as the pictures seem to indicate. The rust is flaking out a bit in spots but the overall surface is still mostly fairly smooth and doesn't have that leathery texture of rusty sheetmetal that I've become all too familiar with.

    We're going to find out either way when the primer goes on. The gray will show any obvious pitting. I can add a rattle can high-build primer step to the process if that's the case (another thing to test!) and see how that does. Any which way I go, there will be pictures so other people can see what's what with the process and decide if it's a viable option for their needs and situation.
     
  13. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 25,123

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    best to find a paint that has a flat fan spray nozzle - have done complete cars with primer & satin, turned out pretty good - used about 8-10 cans.
     
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  14. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    THIS, and I'm going to use the handles for spray cans, which I have a couple of, to maximize any chance of decent result.

    I've got some clean fan tips off some EW chassis black cans but they don't fit every can out there for some reason so we shall see. I do very much like the fan tips though.
     
  15. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Almost any hardware store sells a packet of nozzles with different spray patterns.
    You've got all the right ideas for doing this and I think it'll turn out well.
    Good Luck
    Jim
    Also, as an after thought, Home Depot sells Laquer in Spray cans that may just be a lot cheaper than those from the Auto parts stores. Less selection in colors tho
     
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  16. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 632

    COCONUTS

    I did a HD motorcycle back in the early 60s, painted the gas tank, fenders, and oil cover with about 2 cases of lacquer, cannot remember what kind. Wet sand with 600 and rub it out with DuPont rubbing compound. The color was orange, came out pretty good, but I think that I rub out about 15 coats of the 25 I sprayed on--HA HA. The frame was black enamel.
     
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  17. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I will look for tips. I am planning to build a couple solar heater boxes for tje shop soon so I gotta hit Home Despot anyway. I will check to see if they still carry lacquer spray too while I'm at it.
     
  18. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,200

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    When I spray auto paint with a spray gun I'm amazed at how nice everything goes. The only down side is gun cleaning. If not for that I would spray gun everything. IMHO, I would never attempt to paint a whole car with rattle cans.
     
  19. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    A lot of people probably wouldn't, you will get no argument from me on that point, but the scope of this thread here is to test and document the process of acquiring and applying rattle can lacquer to see how it goes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  20. BLUECOLLARKUSTOMS
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 184

    BLUECOLLARKUSTOMS
    Member

    Before you start painting put the cans in a bucket of warm water for about 15 minutes, this will help to atomized the paint better and will really make a difference.
     
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  21. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,339

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from texas

    5 1/2 cans of the old formula Krylon. I'd use Seymore now if I did it again. image.jpg
     
  22. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,666

    A Boner
    Member

    Do a panel at a time......keep a wet edge.....on a cool day.....in the shade. Small panels will be easy.....big panels will be harder to keep a wet edge. Start with small pieces, like a headlight, and work you way up to bigger stuff. Should be able to cut and polish to a really respectable finish if you get enough paint on. I think you will be surprised.....and happy.
     
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  23. Bill Nabors
    Joined: Jul 24, 2011
    Posts: 281

    Bill Nabors
    Member

    I use lacquer spray paint, but I also use sandable primer in a spray can. It is quick drying and lacquer based. You can sand primer as smooth as you want the paint to be. Works for me
     
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  24. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,746

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Picked up some good rattle can tips on the HAMB over the last couple years. One was to store old tips in a jar of lacquer thinner so you always have some at the ready. Another was to recharge old cans with compressed air, had mixed results with that. And don't forget to save the marbles. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  25. All my marbles are steel balls.

     
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  26. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,746

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Yeah I've been getting that lately too. And they 're not even ground well enough to use for anything. Another bygone era in rattle can history.
     
  27. 4woody
    Joined: Sep 4, 2002
    Posts: 2,101

    4woody
    Member

    Could somebody explain the lacquer vs enamel decision for me? Which for what?
     
  28. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Use enamel. Lacquer is old technology. If lacquer is thick it will crack. If it's to hot when applied it will crack, enamel has good adhesion to most substrates. Not only that but when you consider enamel, it can be built in so many different technologies short oil enamel, medium oil enamel, long oil enamel, you can build acrylic enamel in short oil. And the latest is a 2k water based enamel which is surpassing urethane in extreme weather test with more flexibility and better adhesion. You can get a longer period of gloss with a 2k enamel as well.
     
  29. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,552

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Ok, I have a result. I did the grill shell over the weekend; these are my findings.

    Dupli-Color Rust Converter base:
    The piece was brushed down with a wire brush, sanded, and wiped down before spraying. The product lays fairly well for having a round tip, but doesn't go super far. It does not seem to get along with the fan tip I tried to use. I was able to do the shell with probably most of a single can (I also hit the frame perimeter and used all 3 cans that I bought). I find that it does not dry black but more of a darkened rust color. It does smell like a rust converter, but I fear that it sets up too quickly to fully convert rust and instead mostly just encapsulates it. Regardless, keep your mask on or get away from the piece for a couple hours once you're done. It needs to cure for 24 hours so plan accordingly.
    VERDICT: Probably great for an art piece that you want to preserve patina/rust on but might be a liability under paint long term. I suggest using the Eastwood Rust Converter in the Quart size with a pump spray nozzle attached. I've done this with good result. It's not what you can get at the auto parts store, no, and it's twice as expensive easily, but I trust it more.

    20150926_124524.jpg 20150926_140439.jpg 20150927_114540.jpg 20150927_114553.jpg 20150927_131700.jpg

    Here is what the Eastwood stuff looks like:
    [​IMG]

    NEXT the piece was given a scuffing with 400 grit per instruction of the Dupil-Color Primer Sealer that went on next, since the Rust Converter is supposedly a Primer. This can comes equipped with a nice fan tip which can be rotated. The tip is also made to reduce finger fatigue and spattering, which it is effective at.

    VERDICT: The Primer Sealer covered very well and laid nice despite being quite quick to dry. I'll probably keep cans of this in the shop in the future. It's inexpensive and a can goes surprisingly far. I will be using this on some pieces of metal that will be left in the weather over the Winter to see how it fares.

    20150927_132318.jpg 20150927_132814.jpg 20150927_133615.jpg

    I let the sealer sit for a little over an hour, then started laying the Dupli-Color White Acrilic Lacquer. It has the same fan tip as the primer sealer, which came in handy because I broke the collar on my spray handle. I still got some spray can fatigue and my index finger still has a sore spot but I was able to lay the entire can of paint without incident other than the one insect that got caught in it.

    VERDICT: I actually like this paint. I was surprised at how well it laid once I built it up enough to get a good wet edge going. I was able to get from one side to the other, shuffling around from side to side, and maintain a wet edge with the rattle can. That's probably somewhere around 5' of linear travel, so it's reasonable to expect that a bucket body could easily be painted with these if enough are on hand. That said, I put the entire can down on this piece. While I'm fairly happy with the result, you will notice a lot of Orange Peel. This is almost certainly due to not doing a lot of surfacing work to the underlayers. I would suggest that some sandable primer/surfacer underneath with some sanding to get it smooth before a coat of sealer would have made for a slicker finish and required less paint to look nice. As it sits, it works for my purposes and kinda reminds me of an old appliance as far as the finish. I think I got a decent 10 to 20 foot job out of this.

    This stuff isn't exactly easy to just pick up though. Most stores keep only 1 or 2 cans in stock, since it's really intended to be used as a touch-up or repair paint.

    20150927_144057.jpg 20150927_144106.jpg 20150927_163747.jpg 20150927_163802.jpg
    The bug.
    20150927_164336.jpg

    Here it is on the 17 DB. You can see that the frame isn't exactly BLACK but more of that darkened rust color. I also laid some on some areas of rust through on the primed cowl. Again, the Duplicolor Rust Converter did not change the color of the rust appreciably. It reminds me of a polyurethane spray with a slight tint. Something like this might make a good candidate for CLR.

    20150927_183015.jpg
     
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  30. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,746

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Good write up. I have never been able to get the Duplicolor rattle can to lay down flat, always looks great wet and roughens up as it dries. To be expected with lacquer I suppose.
     

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