TECH: Ultimate T-5 Article

how swap cruise-o-matic for c-6 ford transmission.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman39
Does anyone know if the aftermarket Mustang short throw shifters that are all over epay will work on the S10 tail shaft housing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfcockedcustoms
from what I tried,,,,,the mustang bolt pattern is not the same as the S10,,,,,there are short throw S10 ones available

You all might have seen this already but if you haven't it might be of some use in making your own short throw shifter.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/shifter/index.html

Smokey

 

Is the following combination feasible?

WC Mustang internals
'85 NWC Camaro V6 main case
V8 Camaro 26 spline input shaft
NWC S10 non-electric speedo tail housing and top cover

From what I've seen thus far, only syncro reverse internals in an old case is an issue.

 

The only problem I see is the camaro input shaft (I don't think it will interchange with the Mustang counter shaft), use the Mustang input shaft and a Mustang clutch disc and you'll be fine.

 

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That sounds right, thanks!

 

A guy here is advertising a T5 out of a 1999 S10 4.3. Will this mate to a small block chevy? Is there anything I need to be aware of? Thanks

 

Be aware that the transmission wouldn't be a T5.

Bob

 

WC internal won't work in a NWC case due to shaft bearing differences.

Bob

 

Thanks, he said it is a 5 speed, what do I know?? What manual with overdrive would be good for a small block chevy?

 

Well, you could use the '99 S10 5 speed behind the small block even though it's not a T5. The NV trans has the bellhousing built in to the main case, but since the 90º V6 and V8 have the same pattern it will bolt up. Use a V8 flywheel as the V6 flywheel is externally balanced for the V6. Also be aware that they use the built in hydraulic throw out bearing and the shift lever postion can't be changed like the T5.

Bob

 

Thank you Bob. I want a standard shift transmission so I can put a sbc into a 1950 Ford car but I dont know anything about modern chevy transmissions. This car will be driven often but not hard and overdrive seems like a good idea

 

Google "NV 3500" and "New Venture transmissions". You'll find plenty of info.

Bob

 

I am posting this in regards to the first section of the Complete T5 swap.

"This discussion is about swapping an S10 T5 (in my case, into a 66 C10) – if you have a Camaro T5 then you don’t need the spacer plate or bearing retainer index ring extender outlined below, just drill out the 4 mounting holes on the trans to ½” and bolt the T5 in with the appropriate clutch/pressure plate combo for the trans (i.e. a Camaro clutch kit) and you’re good to go. But, of course, the underlying reason folks like the S10 T5 is the forward shifter mounting location that works so well with truck bench seats."

I took this as truth and found my self a 92 Camaro V6 T5 to drop in my 1964 C10 chevy 230CID. I planned on obtaining the S10 tail housing to move the shifter farther forward. Unfortunately the swap has not been this straight forward as illustrated above. First off the 92 v6 camaro T5 has the ford bolt pattern not the GM(with the ears). Second the spline length is different from the munice sm420 that came out of the C10. The Muncie sm 420 has a spline length of 6.5" while the camaro wc t5 has a spline length of 182.1mm(7.16929") resulting in a difference of .66929". To combat this I bought my self a v8 camaro t5 wc case with the GM bolt pattern(not cheap). I plan on milling myself a spacer plate to make up for the difference. I am posting this to find out if any one else has ran into my same problems and for anyone else planning to attempt this swap.


http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm
The spline length of the 92 camaro I found in a book How to Rebuild and Modify Your Manual Transmission (Motorbooks Workshop)

 

So I think I already know the answer but I will ask simply to confirm my thought process. I am in the process of restoring a '70 Chevy C10 P/U and the previous owner installed a SBC with a T5 out of an '89 Camaro (so says the markings on the bell housing). Also, he installed the S10 tail shaft so you would think that I am good to go... well sorta. As I am sure you guessed by now, the trans sits rotated approximately 30 - 40 degrees left (confirms that at least the bell housing is out of an F-body). So my question is can I simply pull the trans and replace the bell housing with an S10 bell housing to straiten it up or is it more involved than that?

 

This is what Flat Ernie said in post #209 and I did it on my own so I know that it works.

There is no "tilt" in the transmission. The "tilt" is all in the Camaro bellhousing, so if you use a normal bellhousing, the transmission will be upright. The mounting pad on the tail housing is angled, but can be adapted with a simple wedge. And yes, you can use an S10 tail shaft to move the shifter forward. If you do this, you don't need to worry about the angled mounting pad either - read the tech.

 

First, tailshaft does not equal tailhousing, make sure you use the right terminology or you will cause confusion.

There isn't an S10 bellhousing that will work, as they didn't use a non-integrated bell trans behind a 4.3 in the S10, but most V8 or '63-up inline 6 bellhousing will work, but you will need to know what size flywheel you are using because the bells are sized for the flywheel. Block mounted starters are as well. Also, watch the center hole size as the T5 is 4 11/16", and alot of trucks used 5 1/8", but you can get an adapter ring to shrink it down to 4 11/16". Also, don't use a bell from a V8 Monza or a '62-67 Nova, or a '78-81 Malibu as the fork angle is wrong for your application.

 

I dont see any reason to straighten up the trans myself. You already have a trans/bellhousing combo that works. Yeah the shifter is going to come out of the trans at an angle but how about just fabbing a shifter handle with a bend to it? That will position the shifter a little closer to the drivers side but there is plenty of room in the PU to do this. if you had a 4 speed saginaw or muncie the shifter would be on the drivers side of the tranny anyway much like the fore mentioned bent t5 shifter.

 

Great article, do you have any info on matting one up to a small block mopar.

 

To the original response, yes I do realize that the twist is in the bell housing (as I mentioned), that is why I was asking about swapping the bell housing to straighten it up. Also, thanks for the tip on the opening size, I just learned that as well and it was suggested that I use a 60's Corvette bell housing. My only concern is getting the clutch to line up. Also, good info in the flywheel teeth - something else I did not know. Has anyone seen/made an adapter to simply turn this upright?

Lobucrod, you make a very good point. Or perhaps better said, if it's not broke don't fix it! My fear is that I am looking at a 16" shift lever (I could go shorter) and don't want it rubbing my leg as I am trying to shift. I'm not very good at the fabrication aspect of things but I guess I could heat it up and give it a bend to the right and just powder coat it when I am done.

Perhaps for now I need to just convert (i.e. swap out) the tail housing and tail shaft gear to mechanical speedo as planned and leave the front portion of it as is for now. I can always go back to it later and I have plenty of other things to do in this restoration before it even sees the light of day.

 

I have a 92 WC out of a Camro. I need to know how to wire my Autometer (electric) speedometer up. also where can I find the plug for it. Chevy dealer says they don't carry it anymore.

 

If that plug is the same as an S10, I have one you can have.

 

I have a 1962 Stovebolt 6 C-10 does anyone know if my 1985-86 T-5 out of an S-10 will bolt right up to my Bellhousing?

 

maybe..if memory serves me correctly....there's a big n there's a Lil bolt pattern...

 

Yes, but you'll probably have to run a 1/2 inch drill bit through the boltholes on the trans.

 

Yes it will along with other mods...

 

Found some new info...I didn't think the input shafts varied that much. This info comes from part descriptions for replacement parts and is derived from overall length of the input shaft, so could be off by 1/16-1/8" (but unlikely).

There are several different T5 input shaft lengths:

WC
6.625" - 88-92 Camaro V8
6.725" - 93-98 Isuzu Rodeo
7.125" - 85-93 Mustang, 88-92 Camaro V6, 88-92 Isuzu Rodeo, SOME '93 S10
7.4375" - 85-93 Mustang/T-Bird 2.3/SVO
7.875" - 94-95 Mustang V8

NWC
6.625" - 82-87 Chevette, 83-87 Camaro V8, Camaro/Astrovan
6.725" - 84 S10 (2.2L), 82-84 S10 (Isuzu engine)
7.125" - 83-84 Mustang V8, SOME S10
7.1875" - Jeep, 82-83 280ZX Turbo

 

I have a 1993 Ford mustage 4 cylinder it has a t5 in it and the tail shaft got tore up I have been trying to get a new tail shaft for it! I have gotten 2 for it and none have worked one of them are exactly the same but the only thing that is different . is that the tail shaft does not have a little area for a little half inch tab that sticks off the fifth gear does anyone know what that tab on the 5th gear does ? or is there anyone that can help me find the right tail shaft for the Mustang that I have

 

I think you are on the wrong forum

 

PF try these guys.

http://www.5speeds.com/

They may be able to help.

Your 93 Mustang is too new for this forum, if someone has the information you are looking for they may post it here (keep an eye on this space) so I can understand asking, but it may be faster elsewhere (hence the link, they should know).

 

GREAT info, but it there a way to get all the pictures back in the original post?.