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TECH: Ultimate T-5 Article

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Ernie, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    Well post #1 sounds great but no photos show up, if it isn't me then I suggest when you post photos you put them on your own website (not putfile.com and/or not a link to someone who may delete them)) and leave them there forever so ten years from now we will still be able to see them.

    According to wikipedia, "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putfile" ... In April 2009, Putfile went offline.

    If you think your photos or info is worth something, spend $100 a year for a website at fatcow.com ... I have no interest in that company but I do have a couple of sites which they host (and which I am happy to pay for).
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  2. I installed the short spline WC 14 spline transmission in my 1929 Whippet with a 276 Hemi. The overdrive isn't as wicked as the V8. The V6 has like a .76 and the V8 was a .63 or there abouts. The one thing that will suck is that I am running 31" rear tires and at this point a 3.0 rear gear. I have a 3.5 that I will be installing. The 1st gear on the V6 is 4.10 which is a very much granny gear . Good for slow cruising! This is a WC T-5 14 spline out of a V6 89 Camaro. I also have an 89 WC T5 V8 Camaro 26 spline and a 1986 NWC T5 out of a V8 Camaro.
    One thing that you have to watch for is that the 14 spline clutches are hard to get in 10.5" sizes. I think Speedway now offeres one or Summit does. I couldn't find one after looking for 2 weeks on line every night with . Then I actually found a local clutch company that had 1 and they didn;t even know the aplication. It was actually a 10.4" .
    You can get an 11" out of an Astrovan but I have yet to see a manual Astro van? Alos the 11" doesn't fit in alot of the bell housings. So that left the 10.5 or smaller. The 9" that you can buy everywhere just looked way to small to grip to a V8.
    I also had to grind off about 1/4" off the spline so that it wouldn't knock out the pilot bearing out of the custom flywheel.
    Don't forget if you use the stock Bellhousing, it tilts the transmission around 18 degree's towards the drivers side.
     
  3. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    Whippet, sounds like a neat setup, except the combination of ratios and tire size.

    I don't know how you have that hemi built (stock, 3/4-full race, somewhere in between) but a 31" tire with even a 3.50 final and a .76 overdrive is going to be turning awfully slow at any reasonable road speed.
     
  4. <TABLE border=2 borderColor=#7700ff><TBODY><TR><TH>Engine Speed (RPM) </TH><TH> Speed (MPH) </TH></TR><TR><TD align=middle>8000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>281.07 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>7500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>263.50 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>7000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>245.93 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>228.37 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>210.80 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>5500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>193.23 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>5000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>175.67 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>4500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>158.10 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>4000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>140.53 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>3500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>122.97 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>3000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>105.40 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>2500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>87.83 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>2000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>70.27 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>1500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>52.70 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>1000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>35.13 MPH</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    This is with 3.50 rear gears


    <TABLE border=2 borderColor=#7700ff><TBODY><TR><TH> Engine Speed (RPM) </TH><TH> Speed (MPH) </TH></TR><TR><TD align=middle>8000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>239.35 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>7500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>224.39 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>7000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>209.43 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>194.47 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>6000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>179.51 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>5500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>164.55 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>5000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>149.59 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>4500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>134.64 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>4000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>119.68 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>3500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>104.72 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>3000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>89.76 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>2500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>74.80 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>2000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>59.84 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>1500 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>44.88 MPH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>1000 RPM </TD><TD align=middle>29.92 MPH</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    This is with 4.11s


    The engine is built pretty stock with a little bit more cam and a 4 bbl. Stock was a 2 bbl on all 276s.
    The car will weigh just a bit over 2000 lbs.
    I may just go with the 4:11s as the gears are only $120 and then is the 4.10 1st gear is too low , I'll just install my other 1989 V8 T5.

    Here's a link to some of the best Automotive calculators!! Thanks to our Pontiac brother Wallace racing.
    http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
     
  5. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,531

    Stovebolt
    Member

    Just wondering - how easy is it to find a 26 spline 9" clutch?

    I have a Camaro T5 with a S10 rear so the shifter is in the right place.
     
  6. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    '93-up S10 4 cyl is 26 spline 7 1/8"
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  7. jackandeuces
    Joined: Feb 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,046

    jackandeuces
    Member

    Great tech, need to save...
     
  8. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    As long as you are aware, I like the looks of the 4.11 better but understand your concern about 1st being less useful.

    Would a 3.90 be a better balance for you?

    I ran into the problem of 5th being taller than is practical with my Model A, but it's got 28" tall rubber, 3.70 cogs and a .67 OD.

    I've got a 4.20 to try in it, but I'll have to see if that is a better compromise (I got the whole drop out for $20, I figure it's worth a try).

    It doesn't help that the engine driving all that (in mine) is cammed up a bit. ;)

    I sure goes nice in the rest of the gears though. :D (ignoring the first 5 feet in 1st)
     
  9. 460thunderjet
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 10

    460thunderjet
    Member
    from wylie tx

    Hey, all you guys who have put CAMARO T5's in your rides and mounted them level, not the stupid 17-degree 80's OEM mounting, have filled them to proper capacity (like through the shifter) and NOT just to the fill plug. The S10 & Ford cases use the higher fill plug boss, but the Camaro case uses the lower boss (Ford case only has one fill hole boss) so if you used a old SBC/BBC bellhousing then you might want to fill trany completly.
     

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  10. Unibodyguy
    Joined: Dec 23, 2007
    Posts: 403

    Unibodyguy
    Member

    Definetly subscribing, going to put one behind a Yblock sometime down the road. Got to do a little swapping though, have to put a S10 Tailshaft on a older NWC if thats possible. Get the shifter up where it should be. Mine is out of a 84 Mustang that had a 302.

    Michael
     
  11. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Actually, they will work, but require a modification.

    The Mustang shifter is rectangular and the GM shifter is square. The rear two bolt holes on the Mustang line up correctly for the GM trans. Simply re-drill the front two holes and cut off the excess shifter base on the Mustang shifter - job done!
     
  12. rod rialto
    Joined: Apr 10, 2011
    Posts: 59

    rod rialto
    Member
    from rialto, ca

    Can anyone help me out?
    I moved the slider(?) closest to the front of the case...I believe it's the 3-4 slider...Now I can't move it back...3 of those "thingies" pop up, but even if I try holding them down, I can't slide the slider back up to the position it was in when i took the top off the box...It's like the slider is binding up or something.


    I don't know what gear it was in, and I have turned the shaft since I took it apart.

    The other slider moves back and forth no problem, and my Junk S10 trans that I took the tailshaft off of, both sliders move back and forth, no problem...

    Anybody got any ideas?

    Thanks
     

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  13. 460thunderjet
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 10

    460thunderjet
    Member
    from wylie tx

    Got to get all 3 "thingies" back flat ( they may need replacing &/or springs inside slider hub). they shouldn't be any further out than the hub that slider is on (rearward in your case) and you may have to pry it back. "three" hands anyone?
    we can try to coach you through; remove input shaft, inspect syncros & reset sliders/springs, install bearings/syncro/input shaft bearings (flat & rollers)
    But I would recommend getting one of the rebuild books ( 2 good ones available at book stores) I like the Yellow one better ( has other old school 4 speeds in it, the other has crap for Honda 5 speeds:confused:)
     
  14. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,531

    Stovebolt
    Member

  15. rod rialto
    Joined: Apr 10, 2011
    Posts: 59

    rod rialto
    Member
    from rialto, ca

    Thanks Dude...I got my s10 tail shaft on, and everything...now I just have to put a small divot on the shaft for the speedo clip.
     
  16. 460thunderjet
    Joined: May 2, 2010
    Posts: 10

    460thunderjet
    Member
    from wylie tx

    The diviot... I've had best luck W/ grinding stones (need a few, they tend to blow apart w/ some pressure) after scratching surface w/ grinding disc, drills & center-punches cringe at the sight of that hard steel shaft.
     
  17. Shizzelbamsnapper
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 317

    Shizzelbamsnapper
    Member
    from Ohio

    Ok, those three thingy things are the index keys. Heres what you have to do, and it will probably take you a few times but trust me it will work.

    1st. Turn the shaft till you can see two of the index keys, they will be at 10 and 2 o'clock.

    2nd. Take a small screwdriver (straight blade) and carefully push down and forward on one of the index keys, while holding pressure on the collar.

    3rd. Do the same to the other one that you can see.

    4th. This is where it gets a little tricky, while keeping pressure on the collar you have to turn it until you see the last key.

    5th. do the same thing with the last index key, push down and forward. When its in position the collar will slide back.

    DO NOT just pry on collar and think it will go back in place, you WILL break all the index keys and have to take it completely apart.

    Hope this helps.
     
  18. rod rialto
    Joined: Apr 10, 2011
    Posts: 59

    rod rialto
    Member
    from rialto, ca

    I've got 200 miles on my swap so far...now i got to patch up all the holes in the floor, and get a shift boot.
     
  19. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    Yah, and with photos that don't disappear after a few months....
    (When will they ever learn?)
     
  20. Man, lots of good info here
     
  21. Gus68
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 470

    Gus68
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Hey. LOTS of great info here!!!!! One little thing I would like to pass along. I have read that some guys are having a hard time comming up with a clutch disk with the splines they neen in the right diameter. A few years back I need a ford disk in a chevy pressure plate. The disk was 1/4 inch too big diameter so my local machine shop turned it down on a lathe. :D I asked my machinest if we could do it and he said "lets try". Made a hell of a mess but ot turned out fine, not all frayed like i thought it would.
     
  22. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,564

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    I haven't seen lt listed here (unless I missed it), but don't be surprised if you come across an early T-5 with the standard 10 spline input shaft. I recently saw one at a swap meet, and the vendor said it came from an '83 Camaro 305 car.
     
  23. falconsprint63
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 2,358

    falconsprint63
    Member
    from Mayberry

    does this mean that all the jeep t-5's will bolt up to a ford bellhousing? I found one that codes from a NWC 82 cj, but it has no bellhousing, it appears to have the forward location that will work better in my 34 pu

    is this a case of better to just do the swap the tailshaft on my wc rear mount t-5 or will the NwC be ok behind a cad 365/390? I'm not ground pounder if that matters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  24. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Just got ahold of Dwight Bond and he's still making the adapters.

    His Info same as posted here before:

    DWIGHT BOND
    200 KELSEY AVE.
    GIBBON, NE. 68840

    308~468~5885

    Really nice guy, full of info. Money orders only, no PayPal. Just another American making good stuff!
     
    MIKE STEWART likes this.
  25. Smokin' Joe
    Joined: Jul 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,001

    Smokin' Joe
    Member Emeritus

    Great information! Long live the HAMB!
     
  26. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    the jeep and ford T5 have different bearing retainer diameters, so you would want to swap retainers if using one in place of the other.
     
  27. bfinch56
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 121

    bfinch56
    Member

    I have the phone number for a guy that has an '88 camero T5. can I use a different bell housing to adjust for the 17/18 degree "tilt" and an S10 tail shaft to bring the shifter forward?
    Is this a WC T5 and can it handle 400ft-lbs from a 365 cadillac?
     
  28. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    There is no "tilt" in the transmission. The "tilt" is all in the Camaro bellhousing, so if you use a normal bellhousing, the transmission will be upright. The mounting pad on the tail housing is angled, but can be adapted with a simple wedge. And yes, you can use an S10 tail shaft to move the shifter forward. If you do this, you don't need to worry about the angled mounting pad either - read the tech.

    It should be a WC T5, but only decoding the tag will know for sure. As for what it will handle, that's always up for debate. The T5 is stronger than most think. If you're putting it behind that Caddy in a heavy car with sticky tires and intend to side step the clutch, find another tranny. If you're looking for a 5-speed tranny for your cruiser, you'll be fine. Anything in-between is up for debate - I think it'd be fine for most street applications, but you'll get other opinions on this.
     
  29. bfinch56
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 121

    bfinch56
    Member

    Thanks flat earnie. I read your tech several times but I'm simple minded and asking the question for my particular application really helps. And thanks for making that tech thread, you're the man!

    This setup is goin' in a fenderless 29 Tudor.
     
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