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TECH: Ultimate T-5 Article

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Ernie, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I believe Dwight's adapter is for a standard GM transmission. The S10 transmission input shaft is longer than the standard GM transmission input shaft by about 3/8-5/8", so your experience is not unusual depending on the adapter and the trans...
     
  2. mike wood
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 3

    mike wood
    Member

    very useful information.. thank you!
     
  3. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    Can anyone give me a list of Speedometer drive gears that will fit the NWC T-5? Do drive gears from other trans fit? Powerglide? Mine has a yellow gear and cannot get the driven gear to go into the trans.....????
     
  4. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I know the Mustang gears well, but am unsure about the Chevy stuff. All of the Mustang gears interchange just fine...regardless of whether it's a yellow or black drive gear...
     
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    There are two drive gear sizes (tooth counts), yellow and black, so the driven gears have to match the drive gear. You might have driven gears for the other drive gear. The Black gear is for 22 to 25 teeth driven gears. Keep in mind, there is a 22 tooth gear for both drive gears. The Yellow gear is for 18 to 22 tooth gears, and seems to be the "common one" found in passenger cars.

    As far as I can tell NWC and WC drive gears are interchangeable, across destination brands.
     
  6. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
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    gas pumper
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  7. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I know that I have changed black & yellow and never bothered to change drive gears. If you look up the Ford stuff, there is only one listing for each gear - the only options are manual or automatic - the difference being the length of the pilot on the end of the gear - autos are longer, but can be trimmed for use in manual.

    I've swapped gears all around multiple cars, so not sure I'm buying the fact there's a different pitch between the drive gear and driven gears...

    Somewhere, I have a laminated 3x5 card I made up of tooth counts and Ford p/n along with common ratios and which combos to use with a 26" tire...
     
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    (Sorry the text editor is not holding the format exactly in the Speedometer Gear Chart section.)

    Speedometer driven gears. Based OEM AC-Delco gears. Aftermarket gears may differ in color, exact tooth count should be manually verified.

      • 18 tooth brown dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810
      • 19 tooth white dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810
      • 20 tooth blue dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810
      • 21 tooth red dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810
      • 22 tooth gray dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810
      • 18-22T .810 diameter gears must be used with a 1.84 OD speedometer drive gear.
      • 22 tooth green dimension -1.75 x .305 x .870
      • 23 tooth black dimension -1.75 x .305 x .870
      • 24 tooth yellow dimension -1.75 x .305 x .870
      • 25 tooth orange dimension -1.75 x .305 x .870
      • 22-25T .870 diameter gears must be used with a 1.76 OD speedometer drive gear.
      • Speedometer Gear Chart
        Axle Ratio 6T 7T 8T -Drive Gears​
        2.73 - - 18 ​
        3.08 - 18 20​
        3.27 - 19 21​
        3.55 17 20 22​
        3.73 18 21 23​
        4.10 19 22 24​
        4.30 21 23 25​
        4.56 23 24 -​
    • Calculated driven gears are based on normal 26" tires and the formula listed below: ​
    Driven Gear Teeth = Drive gear teeth x axle ratio x tire revs/mile​
     
  9. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    One last question, could the drive gear be installed 180 degrees out ????? What would this cause? NWC T-5.....
     
  10. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    I think I found my problem.....Will a 700 R4 speedo drive gear fit on a T-5 NWC tail shaft?
     
  11. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Wow, so Ford trumps Chevy for interchangeability for once. ;)
     
  12. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    Thanks for all your help, this has all helped and I will keep for future reference. I am of the opinion until I tear down my tranny that my rebuilder put in a 700 R4 drive gear. It is yellow and I think a 19 tooth gear. With most driven gears having a diameter of .810, my problem rest with the drive gear diameter being to large. Any thought on my assumption?
     
  13. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    Ah, and I totally forgot that there is a 8-tooth drive gear, and it is green, or white 'ish, natural nylon color.

    My memory is fuzzy on the 700R4 drive gear. If I remember correctly, it has a smooth inside bore, with a key-way in it to keep it from spinning.

    The T5 has drive gears with an internal bore that has splines.
     
  14. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    Believe me I am no expert on transmission, but I am learning fast. My only resource has been the visual info and other data I have been able to get from the website.....www.transmissioncenter.net.....that was posted in a previous post. It seems 700 R4, TH350 and T-5 (NWC?) drive gears may interchange. Does anyone know the diameter of a 700 R4 drive gear?
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    I am no expert either, and I do learn something new every day.

    Here's a visual:

    700R4 v.s. T5 Speedometer Driven gear:
    [​IMG]700R4
    [​IMG]T5
    They both have a key way, but one bore is smooth, and the other is smooth.

    Not sure if one will fit in the place of the other.
     
  16. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    Good post, You hit that nail on the head. Now I am back to the drawing board. If I look at the transcenter website more, I think the possibiltiy of a Ford drive gear crossing with a GM drive gear is looming. I wish I could find to OD of these gears somewhere. Does anyone know the ID and OD if Ford VS GM speedometer drive gears?
     
  17. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    Like it says on the website,

    Drive gear is GM T5 only.
    Driven gear is T5 or TH350 only.

    Ford (yellow)and GM (blue) both have a 7 tooth drive gear, but they don't list them as being the same or that they interchange. Must be because they don't, right?
    Did you try calling this place and asking them about it?

    You're going to have to pull the tailhousing and switch to the right gear. Whether to use the red or blue depends on you gearing and tire size.
     
  18. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    Thanks everyone for your help. Snarl, said it I just didn't want to have to take the tail shaft housing off. Since the tranny is in the car. Anyone take a tail shaft housing off with the tranny in the car?
     
  19. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    I have...

    You need to be able to pull the housing back a couple inches and be able to get your hand up there along the side of the shifter location in order to hold the shift block in place as you slide it all forward. Other wise you will need a second hand inside the car to help with that.
     
  20. 37fatfender
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 21

    37fatfender
    Member

    I want to put and early T 5 tail shaft on a WC trans but I am unsure which trans to use. I DO NOT want to use the Mustang because of the different case bolt pattern at the bellhousing. I have been told to use a Camaro/Firebird V6 trans, but what year car had these trans ?
     
  21. Shizzelbamsnapper
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 317

    Shizzelbamsnapper
    Member
    from Ohio


    If you want a WC trans it will have the Mustang bolt pattern, all WC trans use the Ford bolt pattern. If you have a T-5 without the Ford pattern then you have a NWC. The tailhousing of all T-5's will interchange from ford to chevy
     
  22. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Did you read the first bit of this? ;)

    You want V8 Camaro/Firebird - I believe most, if not all, WC V6 Camaro/Firebird T5 had the Ford bolt pattern. Don't have exact years off top of my head, but it's in the original posting somewhere...
     
  23. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,761

    bobscogin
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    WC V6 T5 Ford pattern began in the F-Body in the '93 model year; first year of 4th generation.

    Bob
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    I concur. This has been my exact field experience.

    G
     
  25. Hey, my buiddy scrapped an Isuzu Trooper the other day and I looked it over and discovered it to have the same 2.8L TBI V6 as an S10. Unfortunately I couldn't see under the damned thing, but I suspect that there's a chance those got T5's too - it was a manual trans 5-speed, the shifter looked like the one on my S10 T4 although that doesn't mean much. Guessing they're all 4x4, but for you guys doing torque tube conversions it might work. I don't know how much else is the same, they have six-lug wheels instead of five. If I think of it the next time I'm in a you-pull-it I'll crawl under one and verify.
     
  26. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    My comprehensive listing shows listings for Isuzu Rodeo from 93-98 - are they the same as a Trooper?? I'm pretty ignorant on the imported stuff...
     
  27. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    '88-92 Camaro is WC and has the regular Chevy bolt pattern.
     
  28. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I think all the WC V6 ones were Ford bolt pattern, no??
     
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    Now that, I think, is correct.
     
  30. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    I thought I had seen 14 spline WC Camaro boxes at the Jefferson swapmeet, but perhaps I was mistaken? I guess I would have to look into it further...

    The V8's are definitely Chevy pattern. I have one.

    I have also seen non-V8 Camaro T5's with both the regular and long 14 spline input shafts, FWIW...
     
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