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TECH: Ultimate T-5 Article

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Ernie, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,701

    Abomination
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  2. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
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    NWC with a Ford pattern in an Astro van?
     
  3. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
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    Yeah, rumor has it they tend to whine a bit after you put those cogs in (don't know why:rolleyes:). I haven't tried a set, but haven't broke my '92 Mustang box, yet.


    Anybody out there have a preference for which vendor to get an overhaul kit (synchros, seals, shims, fork pads, etc) from?
     
  4. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,701

    Abomination
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    I'm just wanting to put a 5-speed behind a stock 331 Hemi (180HP), and have been spooked by folks into thinking it'll break if 300 ft lbs is applied for too long. :(

    The whining I can deal with (it'll be in an F2 used as a truck, not a show car), as long as I'm not stranded on the side of the road...

    ~Jason

     
  5. Judd
    Joined: Feb 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,894

    Judd
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  6. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
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    A Bom mine is in my A (avatar, it's lower now, 331CI SBF 400 ish hp, 430 ish Ft LB). I'm not particularly nice to it. It's an ebay purchase, super high mile, stock (no reinforcements, I did pop the lid to take a look though).

    No issues to report except the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros are shot (they were that way when I got it). So it kinda sucks to wind it up to redline and shift, you have to wait for the synchros to catch up (more like the revs to fall to something closer).

    I'm running an aluminum flywheel and a Hays 95-201 clutch, so it winds real quick and the clutch holds like Ebenezer Scrooge to a farthing.

    As I previously mentioned it's a 1992 Mustang World class box (needle bearings, fibrous synchros, the 'cupped' Timken front bearing race, and the apropriate code on the tag). I'm running regular ATF, next time I change it (hope to get time to put new synchros in it first) I'm going to try one of the synthetics for that application. Some supposedly make the synchros work better and muffle the whine (not much from mine, have to listen for it, can't hear it above the wind noise above about 70, and that's not that loud).

    I have never towed with the A, it has a reciever on it now though, so I might. I'm thinking about coming up with or building a tear drop to drag behind it. Probably keep it out of OD till I figure out how it likes that.

    Your mileage may vary.

    Biggest problem I hear of is a muffed power shift into 3rd.
     
  7. fonti
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 484

    fonti
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    great thread - thanks guys!!
    ...well, it's the H.A.M.B. ...
     
  8. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I hadn't noticed that before...interesting. This is not my picture, it was sent to me by someone. Astro shifter on different trans maybe? Last year for T5 in Astro was, what, '89/90?? That would make it a bit early for the Ford case conversion, no?
     
  9. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

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    Possibly. I have more questions about it than answers.

    Either its a previously unknown new animal, or something somebody "put together". It would be interesting to know the complete circumstances surrounding it...

    I would like to know what the tag on it says, and what the input spline count is.
     
  10. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Trying to figure out why someone would put that together...maybe a 5.0 swap into an Astrovan! Haha! :D

    The more I play with these things, the more I realize I don't know anything about them! There are so many variants and variants of variants...it boggles the mind.

    I'll dig and see if I can figure out where I got that pic...
     
  11. nailheadroadster
    Joined: Jun 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,522

    nailheadroadster
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    Don't know if this info will help or not...

    I have a V6 Astro bellhousing in the garage and it is drilled and tapped for the WC T5. BUT, there are divots on the inside of the housing for the NWC T5. I have placed a NWC on it and it looks like a simple drill & tap at the divots would allow a NWC T5 to bolt right up to it. Unfortunately, I have no idea what year Astro the housing came out of.
     
  12. flathead31coupe
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,596

    flathead31coupe
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    from indpls, in

    anyone have an idea why a t5 would jump out of first,unless you hold it in, and all the other gears work well? i dont know much about the t5s
     
  13. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
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    Bent shift fork, or a rounded over slider perhaps. Could be the bearing on the input I suppose, but I would think that would cause other problems as well.
     
  14. Hey, there is some really good info here. Great thread.
     
  15. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
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    I assume you are reffering to Ford vs. Chevy bolt patterns?

    WC and NWC came with both patterns, depending on year and application.
     
  16. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
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    Yeah, I don't trust anything I see anymore on these things.

    Looking closely at that picture, I'm now pretty sure it's legit. The patina is comsistent, which would indicate that it was being used in that configuration. Plus what nailheadroadster is saying about the bellhousing he has.
    Hard to tell, but I think it has the NWC front bearing. Probably 14 splines, rather than 10 for the Ford versions.
    Notice the longer splines and shorter collar, as compared to the S10 versions, which is interesting...

    I guess we can ad one more choice to the list for a Chevy bellhousing with a Ford tranny pattern besides the Jeep one.
    Now, if we can just pin down the years and applications for this thing in the Astro vans...

    Did they ever use the Ford pattern in the Camaros?
     
  17. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I believe they did - behind the V6 in the early-mid '90s. Conflicting info and I believe '94 was a transition year as I've heard of both patterns. I don't fool with these at all, so never held one in my hand.
     
  18. At best the lower ears have both patterns, however the 4.68 vs 5" pilot diameter on the input bearing retainer is an issue to contend with.

    Nice write up Ernie.
     
  19. 37 Ford guy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 14

    37 Ford guy
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    Hey Ernie, I have a 37 Ford with a '69 302/C4 in it. Would like to switch to a T-5. From what I've read here, looks like I'd need a pre-93 Ford V8 trans w/the S-10 tailhousing swap, right? If my speedo is electric, with the S-10 elec. speedo housing sync to it? Are there huge X-member mods. for this swap? I currently have the CE C4 trans mount on my x-member. Thanks for any input.....
     
  20. Kevins89notch5.0
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Posts: 105

    Kevins89notch5.0
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    from Orlando


    These guys, http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ offer a t5 rebuild DVD where they walk you through everything. Supposedly a t5 is so simply a monkey could rebuild it. We will see as I'm about to attempt rebuilding a t5z I got for free with a blown 3rd gear.
     
  21. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    You can use a 93 & earlier T5 with the 93 and earlier Fox bellhousing. Or you can use the 94/95 T5 with the same year bellhousing. Difference in input shaft lengths is just shy of 3/4" (from memory .67").

    You can put the S10 tailhousing on either, of course.

    The S10 speedo opening will most likely not line up with the Mustang T5 output shaft speedo gear. Ford didn't offer an electronic speedo in the Mustang with T5 that I'm aware of (although '05-up V6 T5 is an unknown animal to me) and it's the trans, not necessarily the tailshaft, that dictates electronic vs cable speedo.

    Now, you can adapt just about anything and it should be possible to adapt whatever sending unit you need for your electronic speedo to your Mustang/S10 hybrid. However, I've got no experience here and will have to plead ignorance.

    PM Snarl - he's got quite a bit of experience with electronic speedos and may be able to point you in the right direction if you wish to keep your speedo electronic...
     
  22. 37 Ford guy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 14

    37 Ford guy
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    So, is the overall length of the 94/95 trans .67" longer than the previous years because of the different input shaft & bellhousing? If so, that extra length may pose a problem with this application.

    BTW I just spoke to a guy with a 94 T-5 from a V6 Mustang which he claims has an electronic speedo on it. I haven't actually seen it though.

    Thanks for all the great info. Do you know anything about the X-member modifications to put one of these in my 37? If I do this, I gotta find a clutch & brake pedal to fit my frame....

    Thanks.
     
  23. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    The trans itself is not longer, but from the front of the bellhousing to the tailhousing of the trans it is, indeed, .67" longer - this was due to the new "packaging" in the SN95 chassis.

    I had a '94 V6 - I don't recall it having an electronic speedo, but then again, it was a daily and I wasn't underneath the thing checking out the T5 either. I have installed a '94 V8 T5 in my '83 (and now in a '92) and it most definitely is NOT electronic.

    Realize that it may be an electronic speedo, but it can still be a mechanical drive out of the transmission - there are converters and some are used by OEMs.

    I know you'll have to at least open it up - the center will likely need to be removed and new top/bottom plates fabricated. Look at Chassis Engineering Inc's kits to put a TH350 into a 35-40 chassis - same idea/concept...that said, I've never done one in an early chassis (yet - my '40 will eventually get the T5 w/torque-tube and will be a different mod)
     
  24. 37 Ford guy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 14

    37 Ford guy
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    Thanks again for all the input! I'm currently using Chassis Engineering's C4 kit on my x-member. It will probably be easy enough to modify that to fit the T-5 into place. Plus I have the Direct Sheet Metal big block firewall and floorboards so clearance shouldn't be an issue there. In reality, it would probably be easier to just stick an AOD in there and be done with it since I already have it set up for automatic but the T-5 sounds pretty cool to me. Will do a little more research and let you know what I decide. Thanks again for all your input. It's been very helpful.
    Randy
     
  25. 37 Ford guy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 14

    37 Ford guy
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    Hey Ernie, if you don't mind, I'd like to get another opinion from you....I've found 2 T-5 candidates to consider each with there own merits & concerns. Which do you think might be the better option?
    1. 1990 Mustang GT T-5(although the year can't be confirmed because tag is missing), supposedly rebuilt in last 2 years and hardly driven since the rebuild. It's currently in a 90ish GT with a nitrous powered 306. The current owner swears he's only raced in once in the last year. Fuel is too expensive for it so he only drives it once a month. Trans includes bellhousing, Centerforce clutch & pressure plate w/5000miles, thowout bearing, Pro 5.0 short throw shifter, block plate and possibly the T-5 yoke, all for $350
    It's located about 20 miles from me.

    2. 1990 Mustang GT T-5, original trans, confirmed 1990 from tag, has been used in a part-time daily driver 83 Mustang since 1996. He's certain it's way less than 100k miles. Includes bellhousing, new OE clutch & pressure plate from auto parts store, stock shifter, stock flywheel (won't work for me cause I need the 28oz), priced at $350.00. Located about 2 hrs from me.

    My only reservation about #1 is it's possible racing history though I don't think it's been raced much since the alledged rebuild. The year also can't be confirmed without the tag numbers. The additional parts make it more attractive too. Trans #2 seems like it has led a pretty sedate life which may make it the safer choice, who knows? Anyway, just thought I'd run it by you guys for a second opinion if you have time.

    I scored an S-10 tailshaft housing today for $20.00. It's from a 91. Now I just need a trans to put it on! LOL!

    Thanks for your help.
    Randy
     
  26. 37 Ford guy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 14

    37 Ford guy
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    .....it also appears that the S-10 tailshaft housing requires a different trans mount than the Mustang, right?

    What do you think about WC '86 Mustang V8 trans rebuilt with all new aftermarket NWC gears, shafts, etc.?
     
  27. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    I'd lean toward #2 simply because it's more easily verified. Hard to tell though. Both sound like pretty good deals with all the stuff you're getting.

    Sounds right on the S10 mount.

    I'd pass on the NWC guts in the WC case - for the money of the WC trannys, you're ahead of the game.
     
  28. The Model A Sedanster!
    Joined: Feb 19, 2009
    Posts: 2

    The Model A Sedanster!
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    JusT A question I have a 1936 v-8 flat head with clutch still instaled and was thinkin of useing a T-5 How would I accomplish this? I also have a c-4 adapter to flat head but I want a stick any one that could help I would gretly appeciate that thanks
     
  29. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Did you read the first post?
     
  30. nickpayton
    Joined: Mar 14, 2008
    Posts: 126

    nickpayton
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    from a

    Flat Ernie,
    I have a question for you since i can't find the answer anywhere. I have a NWC 1352-201 and it has an electronic speedo sender, but I want to use cable drive. So my question for you is: is it posable to change out the electronic sprocket to the mechanical gear on the output shaft and put the cable drive in the hole to the gear? Thanks

    Think I found my answer here.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249746&highlight=snarl
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
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