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TECH: Ultimate T-5 Article

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Ernie, Mar 25, 2007.

  1. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    Which T5, GM or Mustang?
     
  2. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    When you say "stock" throw out bearing, stock for which vehicle? Centerforce makes one that will mate to the large early throw out bearing # 365222, but would need a sleeve for T5 input shaft if its GM.
     
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  3. firstinsteele
    Joined: Jun 13, 2013
    Posts: 874

    firstinsteele
    Member

    I have found often times the shudder is caused by bad motor mounts.

    Ben
     
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  4. Hurley50
    Joined: Feb 3, 2012
    Posts: 557

    Hurley50
    Member
    from NC

    I like this! This is how I did mine, just a small piece of sheet metal. 8bb5f0f9d384748f43abca0eed6c6764.jpg 335dd22d79da5020423a3150e696c7d9.jpg
     
  5. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    That's a dam clever idea...
     
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  6. 61klassic
    Joined: Sep 21, 2017
    Posts: 5

    61klassic

    Hi Ben.
    Motor mounts are all fine, I also have anti chatter rods.
    The flywheel did have some run out, plus the old pressure plate has the 3 fingers at slightly different heights. It was the type without adjustable bolts so needed shimming.
    I much prefer the idea of a diaphragm clutch
     
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  7. 61klassic
    Joined: Sep 21, 2017
    Posts: 5

    61klassic

    Sorry I should have said, it’s a Chevy s10 box.
    I’ll have a look at the Centerforce one. Thanks Big duece
     
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  8. 61klassic
    Joined: Sep 21, 2017
    Posts: 5

    61klassic

    I’ve just had a look at that centreforce part number and it comes up as a pressure plate?
     
  9. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    What throw out bearing and fork are you using with the 3 finger style pressure plate? Yes the centerforce 365222 is a diaphragm style pressure plate that has a Merc B&B style bolt pattern(6 even spaced holes) same as GM too, and mates to the early style big Ford throw out bearing. This is a pic of the PP from another site... DCP_3241.jpg
     
  10. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    Which adapter are you using? 2034_ArticleSection_S_53e3294b-6800-4a3b-9384-1b553a8f52ec (1).jpg
    In picture C, you could use a stock GM 10.4" pressure plate; let's say 1975 camaro and the GM throw out bearing, and a pressure plate from speedway that is 10" 1"x 14 spline. OR, picture D, which uses old style BIG throw out bearing from Ford, you can use the centerforce 365222, again with the same pp and 14 spline 10" clutch disk to fit your s10 t5.https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flat...ch-14-Spline-S-10-T-5-Transmission,25137.html
     
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  11. 61klassic
    Joined: Sep 21, 2017
    Posts: 5

    61klassic

    I'm using adaptor D, the original Ford design. that's great info, thanks Big duece! I already have the spacer sleeve from speedway as well. If not just wondered if there are any other release bearing options to use a stock s10 disc and pressure plate?
     
  12. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    The stock s10 pressure plate bolt pattern is different than that of GM v8, plus its 9 in diameter. If your using the Ford design with a big bearing, the centerforce 365222 might be a good option, It's 10.4" If the clutch disk you have now is only 9" , I would step up to the speedway one that I posted earlier( 10" x 1"x 14 spline). I am not aware of any small diameter throwout bearing that will work with the big Ford fork like you have, unless you custom make one. I used a stock v8 gm diaphragm pp on my flathead with a small throwout bearing I custom made, but it was a lot of work to make. Mine started out being a small throwout bearing from '51 Merc, since I can remove the bearing itself in the future. Combined with with a bearing collar from the big bearing to mate with early fork. Then made a bronze bushing lining the inside. After pressed in with green loctite, it was honed to .003 clearance for grease. thumbnail (24).jpg thumbnail (29).jpg thumbnail (30).jpg
     
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  13. I found a 1989 s10 t5 wanting to run it to my 235 besides the Speedo issue what you guys think
     
  14. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    It won't be a WC unit, and probably have a really low 1st gear. How heavy of vehicle?
     
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  15. 1939 chevy master deluxe
     
  16. The first gear is 3.97
     
  17. Never2old
    Joined: Oct 14, 2010
    Posts: 462

    Never2old
    Member
    from so cal

    Since when is”T5” traditional?


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,893

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Since 1982.
     
  19. irishsteve
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 154

    irishsteve

    Low is low.You will be in second pretty fast.Its pretty flat in your area so I bet you could take off in 2nd with no problem.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,893

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Not necessarily.

    Depending on GM whim, and S10 T5 could have has either a 4.03:1, or a 3.76:1 first gear.

    There is a substantial difference in operation.
     
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  21. SquintBoy
    Joined: Mar 19, 2011
    Posts: 84

    SquintBoy
    Member

    Go for it lowrodder! 1st MAY be a little low but your grin will be ear to ear the 1st time you drop it into 5th! BTW, I never bothered trying to hook up a speedo. Just use a GPS (phone, Garmin, whatever). My experience is from 1. a light AV8 coupe with a big, torquey flathead with a 4.03 1st and 3.00 R&P (a little too short) and 2. A '34 3window with a non torquey 265 (097 cam) and a 2.95 1st and 3.55 R&P (a little too long). All is forgiven in 5th in both cars!

    Sent from the red phone
     
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  22. I found another one that's out of a 92 S10 1st gear 3.97 2nd 2.34 3rd 1.48 4th 1.00 5th .72 I'm running some small tires to 165R15
     
  23. BLAKE
    Joined: Aug 10, 2002
    Posts: 2,730

    BLAKE
    Member

    Since this is THE T5 tech post, I wanted to add my experience. I've been running a WC T5 behind my 327 in the sedan with 3.54 gears for years with great results, but in 2017 I lost 5th in Oklahoma coming back to Austin from the HAMB drags. I made it back in 4th... shifting into 5th was like neutral, but all other gears worked fine. Turns out, this is a fairly common T5 failure caused by a failed snap ring on the output shaft which allows the 5th gear cog to slide out of place. The simple fix was to replace the snap ring with a new one (kinda hard to find), which I did. THEN, the damn thing let go again in November of this year coming back from Pistons and Paint.

    This time I searched for better fixes from the T5 experts, all of which were kluge-y at best, in my opinion. They ranged from tack-welding the new snap ring to the shaft to machining a second groove into the shaft and installing a sleeve and secondary snap ring to reinforce the primary one. I finally settled on a fix found online by a friend... install a new, strong snap ring (once you locate one) and then 'overclamp' the snap ring with an aluminum locking collar that's been machined on its forward face to fit over the installed snap ring. I used McMaster part 9520T16, and Ben at Rancho Deluxe (@lowsquire) machined the relief into it. It's all back together and working fine... time will tell!!

    Hope this helps somebody some day!!

    Pulling the trans -
    [​IMG]

    The failure - snap ring out of place, and 5th gear cog slid backward on the output shaft.
    [​IMG]

    New snap ring being installed -
    [​IMG]

    The collar in place over the replaced snap ring -
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 7,931

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thx for this one. I can visualize the thrust against that enap ring as considerable due to the helical angles on the 2 gears. I'm assuming the bolts clamp the collar down to the shaft and prevent the snap ring from expanding and popping outta of the groove so that the steel snap ring is still doing the job of holding the gear from moving to the rear.
    Damn good idea worth using on any T5 before you install it! Do you use a differnt snap ring or a new stock one?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  25. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 873

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Great tech tip. Especially since you don't have to take the whole transmission apart.
    It seems that you could probably even do this with the transmission still in the car.
     
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  26. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,403

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    It's a bitch removing the tail housing on a t5 in a car, fine finger mojo with shifter shaft/block; even harder to reinstall.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  27. BLAKE
    Joined: Aug 10, 2002
    Posts: 2,730

    BLAKE
    Member

    Thanks. I used a new stock one, but they are inexplicably hard to find unless you buy and entire small parts kit for a rebuild. I tried to find similar-spec snap rings in McMaster-Carr, but nothing jumped up. I actually considered the snap rings with the external eyelets (see pic) which could possible be safety-wired shut.. or even tack-welded together without welding to the shaft... but I instead used this collar approach.

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. gonzo
    Joined: Dec 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,573

    gonzo
    Member

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  29. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,438

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh

    By removing the throwout bearing from the sleeve, and turning the sleeve down a bit you can use an 80s Mustang throwout bearing for your Diaphragm clutch, and still keep your original clutch fork.
     
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  30. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,438

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh


    The world class came out in 1984 on the 5.0 Mustang. Anything before that was NWC
     
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