There have been a couple of threads about seatbelts lately, these in particular stand out: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57192&highlight=seatbelt http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74509&highlight=seatbelt So, I thought I'd show you guys what I did with the Heap. Like many of you, I married someone smarter than me. It has caused me no end of trouble because I can't get away with half-assing things. And she can always tell when I'm lying. Damn! Well, she refused to ride in the Heap if I didn't have seatbelts. Actually, she refuses to ride in it most of the time any way because the floor burns her feet and the vapors make her cough and the rain comes through the bullet hole inthe windshield - little nitpicky stuff like that. Really though, I wanted some seatbelts, too, because my seat is just springs, and when you go over big bumps or take corners fast, it bounces you all over really bad (like when you were on the school bus as a kid!) and all you really have to hold on to is the steering wheel. I didn't want the drag-racing style 5 point harness, and lap belts aren't the greatest, so I tried to find a normal 3 point like in modern cars. I surfed around and found Andover Industries. They have the old-style chrome Aviator style buckles. For about 250 bucks (Hey, fuck off, I think I'm worth it) I got a complete kit with shoulder mounts and everything. Considering the price, I was seriously thinking about grabbing stuff out of a junk car, but then I would have to worry about fabbing the mounting plates, not to mention that I had no way of knowing if the belts were in good shape, and I would have to settle for the push button plasitc type rather than chroooomme (which, as we all know, makes it run faster). Mostly though, it was the chrome.
I laid out the parts and we debated on the best place to locate the floor mounts. Andover did include some directions, but they were limited in scope, so as a last resort we had to use common sense. The kit comes with some pretty substantial floor mounts that are essentially giant washers that diffuse the force of a crash and won't tear through the floor. You are supposed to keep the belts in a U shape when you route them and keep the ends around 25" apart. Also, allow 15" between each set of belts. Because of space, it wound up being a couple inches different, but awful close. We did end up with an extra set of holes though. I did't realize that the retractor and the shoulder belt end bolt through the same hole. Fortunately, these holes go virtually unnoticed in the forest of holes that cover my floors.
The only hard part was the shoulder mount, and really it wasn't that hard. It is the only part that needs to be welded on. I picked a mounting spot I liked and drilled a hole for the bolt to poke though as it threaded all the way through the mounting plate. If I had it to do over (which means "if I feel like cutting it out and doing it again...") I would put the cage nut in the B pillar instead of facing it out into the passenger compartment because it'll make upholstery easier, but really it's pretty negligable. This will probably be trickier on your ride because you wont want to get sparks on your cool tweed interior door panels with the recessed bowtie inlays. You will have to figure that one out on your own, Jack. My only bitch with Andover (aside from the directions) is that they sent two different models of retractors. I didn't notice until I went to put them in, but they look totally different. They're both black though, and in the back seat area, so no one will probably notice until they drop their roach or chillidog or whatever back there. Really, the buckles are the only part that matters. So, the moral of the story is: Buckle down (HAW HAW HAW) and put some seatbelts in your ride so you don't die or wind up a vegetable that your wife will have to take care of the rest of her life, and you'll be trapped in your Robo-Cop-like veggie life support unit and you'll never hear the end of it because she told you that you better put seatbelts in that thing but you wouldn't listen and now blah blah blah blah blah.....
Cool. Thanks for the post. I have always questioned the structural integrity of the b-pillar on cars that were built before shoulder belts were standard fare. I guess they'd at least absorb a bit of the shock so you don't hit the steering wheel or dash quite as hard? (as in "better than nothing") I just have lap belts, but not the cool chrome buckles... so I guess that makes your car a lot faster than mine. You got a link, phone number, GPS coordinates or something for these Andover people? Two and a half Franklins is steep, so what did that include? everything for the front seats? Lap belts for the back seat, too? PS- I didn't realize your car is a Fleetline. Now I'm more jealous! Not only is your car faster, it's a Fleetline!
I've seen the inside of those pillars on DIRTYT's car when he chopped it, and there is a LOT of metal in there. There are several interlaced channels around a heavy guage core (1/8th inch thick maybe a little thinner) . I compared the mount location to the one on my S-10, and I think the chevy is heavier. But whatever the case, defiately better than nothing. After the chop I'll put the back seat in, and then I'll belt it was well. Here's the site: http://www.andoauto.com/seat_belts.htm . It's kinda hard to navigate. You may be able to find cheaper belts, but of all the places (like 5?) I found, I got the best vibe from them. But mostly, it was becase they had the buckles I wanted!
thanks for the info! Juliano's has the chrome lift latch type belts, too, but only as lap belts. They're $30 each, and I think, $15 for mounting plates http://julianos.com/lift_latch_seat_belts.html
Dude, your gonna have to cut it out and do it again. I wouldn't trust a weld-nut turned around backwards. They are held on by 4 small projection welds that are basicaly there to hold the nut good enough until you get the bolt torqued down (and pulled towards the base metal). If you had a bad wreck, as is, the weldnut will probably pop loose. FYI......I used to work in a factory that made structural car parts for OEMs.
The other alternative would be to mig weld the nut on, but then you are left with the athstetics issues.
Here in New Zealand, if you want to put belts in your car, the installation needs to comply with the rules in the attached link. It can be hard reading in parts, but some of the diagrams are clear enough on the location of mounting points. It also dictates bolt and steel sizes, and torque settings. http://www.lvvta.org.nz/SeatbeltAnchorages.pdf Another factor to know if you are using retractor belts, is that you need to ascertain the angle between the mounting point of the retractor units and the mounting point on the pillar above your shoulder and buy belts that work on that angle. If you are mounting them in a vertical line you buy 90/90 belts, but in my case the retractor is 74 degrees back, so I need 90/75 and 105/90 (opposite side)belts. And the retractor units are mounted at that angle.
As Stickylifter stated; "Considering the price, I was seriously thinking about grabbing stuff out of a junk car, but then I would have to worry about fabbing the mounting plates, not to mention that I had no way of knowing if the belts were in good shape, and I would have to settle for the push button plasitc type rather than chroooomme (which, as we all know, makes it run faster)." I've often wondered about people that use junk yard belts or for that matter old used belts. I know in most cases its just to keep John Law off your ass. Back in my younger days, when they passed helment laws for motorcycles, I rode with a brain bucket that was nothing more than a shell. Would it have helped in a crash, Hell no! But it kept me from getting ticketed. I grown more wise in my years and put a little importance in protecting my ass. Most race sanctioning bodies require SFI certification on restraint belts. The belts themselves have a date tag and the belts are only good for 2 years, they can be recertified but it cost about as much as new ones. It seems that the material the belts are made of lose 40% of their strength each year. Compare racing belts to that of the average belt found on the street. Now think, does the Goverment really care about your safety, like race orginizations do, or did they just pass a law to satisfy some lobby group? Wise choice buying new belts.
Seat belts are pretty tough. I once saw two guys tow a car off of a cliff with a seat belt, but that was way back in the 70s. Wait a minute, that was CHiPs. John and Ponch were so creative. Those are really great looking seatbelts. I bought some lap belts from JCWhitney with the aircraft buckle, but haven't installed them yet.
Hehe. I bought my setup from Andover too. Not the cheapest, but like you said, got good vibes and if I was gonna have to have belts, I wanted them to look bitchin. The price really ratcheted up when I bought their backing plates ($25/pair, I think?), but in the end, the install went smooth and I have piece of mind with my family strapped in. Thanks for posting the tech. I need to get belts for my 1/2 ton, and plan to put 3-point belts in it. -murph
I've thought about that too, with my all-original '79. The driver's seat belt is visibly frayed on the outer ends, from years of tugging at it through the "loops". Both front belts are dis-colored. How much of their original strength is left now after 27 years of hot/cold/sun cycles? By your calculations, none. We may as well tie some hemp rope around our midsections, bolted to the floor, and get better protection. Yet the Gov't doesn't require re-webbing after 2 years on any car. As safe as we feel being belted in, I doubt 10 year old belts offer the same protection as day-one belts, let alone 27 year old ones, or 35 year old belts for that matter... I have 3 point seatbelts in all my cars (except the '51 Merc), and use them in all my cars... One accident is all it takes to make you a believer...(after being hit head on and walking away 'cause you had a belt on), But essentially, they are basically useless in a crash now if the car is 27+ years old. In fact, I question their strength in my '96 Impala... my only saving grace there is that I got airbags. The '51 Merc will get NEW 3-point belts when the time comes...I don't intend to be speared by the steering column should some jackass decide to pull out in front of me. It's not me I'm scared of, it's everyone else on the road that terrifies me. Something to think about, guys... Mercman1951
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