Tech Request: The Be-All/End-All Flatty/Transmision Combo post...

I think the Jeep T5 might be the answer for a torque tube adaption...I'm sort of looking for one to play with....

 

4WD trans in general end in a nice flat plate for conversion--a regular T5 would have to be cut and welded to get a suitable tail, I think...

 

Well Bruce has summed it up once again.....the bottom assembly needs to fit down in the trans case at tight as possible, I have actually shimmed a couple to get it as tight as I could by milling the thrust washers. I have set up a muncie trans in my newest project and I already cut the top of the K member out "big mistake" but I did save the piece and may go with an early buick box adapted to the torquetube if I don't use the 55 chev rear. This is all in your own minds, you choose what you like but always remember just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Very true, but although I've not seen them side by side, the pics I've seen make the Jeep T5 appear significantly shorter than the S10 4WD one...more along the lines of an early Ford tranny...

I've also got a spare top cover now - in all my free time (haha!) I'm going to see about fabricating a no-shit top shifter - I think it can be done. If it's feasible, then it opens up loads of other T5s for flatty conversion!

 

Man,

Are you mental lol!

The only advantage to a vintage trans is the ability to say, oh yeah '39 toploader. Thats it, end of story do not pass go do not collect $200. Trust me, this is from someone who has one and wishes he didnt!

Lets be realistic, the flathead is a underpowered slug. No matter how you look at it its underpowered compared to a modern OHV. It needs a 4.11 rear end to give it decent acceleration and you cant have 4.11 and highway speeds without an overdrive. So you could chuck in an expensive mitchel OD, columbia 2spd etc or just go with a toyota/T5 5spd.

I think the best thing to do is go for a drive with someone who has a three spd and someone who has a 5spd. At least if you choose the 3spd you'll know what your getting yourself in for!

Danny

 

Yes...

But I had one of the guys that was recommending the T5 come over and see my frame in person to maybe see where a T5 might fit. But when he actually saw it, he said I should go with the early trans for my particular car...

That meant a lot to me cause I kind of converted him!

The thing is, my car is just coming together a certain way.

I have the 28 tooth/3.78 combo that Bruce is talking about and if I blow that up I can explore my other options.

At least that's where I'm heading now.

But this post is for everybody building a flathead rod so I'll leave me out of it.

Lot's of info here...

Anymore?

 

Hey Mate,

I know I'm only ribbin!

Good luck wiht the build!

Danny

 

I run a mildly hopped up flatty with a 39 style ford tranny. I have the 3:78
rear, and the 28 tooth gearset.

a big part of my decision was that I had an original 32 frame, and I didn't
want to cut that thing.

I do not baby my car, I have drivin it around a dirt oval track, as well as I have driven to vegas and back, 13 hours one way.

I can go about 70mph with out winding up the motor too much, I certainly keep up with traffic, and was driving 95mph over the 4600ft pass, leading the
pack.

I actually like the three speed alot. It is still fun to drive, even if I sometimes
would like another gear.

to me, driving a nostagic hot rod is like a time warp, I like all the good things as well as the short comings of running a flatty. I would not get the same experience with a five speed.

Not to say I wouldn't enjoy a five speed, but it would be a different experience. and my next car is going to have a Lincon Yblock and a three speed with overdrive.

 

Ok, I know how you guys feel about manual transmissions "real hot rods have three pedals", blah, blah, blah.
But due to an accident years ago crushin my left leg I can't do a lot of shiftin.
So I'm plannin on using a C-4 behind my flatty. Anybody else usin this combo? What rear end ratio works best with this setup?

 

8BA motor,

originally had 39 box and 32 diff, scared the shit out of me as I was always waiting for something to break, the wheel to go flying out the side, trailers, stuck away from home...

also with 4.11 gears, I was revving the ring of the poor motor to get it going anywhere, and i like to drive.

so I went a 5 speed, the toymotor like psycho showed. and cusso diff, cept for the alternator, steering box and now the 5 speed car is still period if its all a concern.

but now its driveable, and I am more worried about the motor throwing a leg out of bed, have dragged it with this combo and it all held together, great box, great driveability and I cut the top off my 39 shifter and mated it too the 5 speed so from the cab you dont even know its a 5 speed.

but its your car dude, do what makes YOU happy, after all none of us are going to be sitting in the mans seat, so you better make sure your happy with your decision.

Also, I converted mine after, wasnt an easy task so if you are leaning to 5 speed do it now while its just a chassis, as if you wait till the cars going, man your not going to want to pull it apart again.

 

I'm setting up an A chassis for my T bucket. I'm using an 8ba with a T5. I got an adapter from Dwight Bond to mate the S-10 T5 to the hogshead from the 49 F3 that I got the motor from.

 

286" flatty in a 53 Vicky. Trans is a 56 Police Interceptor w/OD. Dont know if the Police/Taxi tranny is any stronger than the standard version but I havent hurt it in 60K miles. Rear is a stock Fordomatic with 3.54's.

276" flatty in a 26T coupe on A rails to a Flatomatic C4 setup. If youve ever been in a T you would appreciate the one less pedal. Rear is a 65 Mustang 8" with 3.25 lockers.

Has anyone used an 80's GM pickup 3 spd w/OD? Much shorter than a SROD and looks fairly rugged.

 

I had a '39 Ford trans in my '36 for ten years -- the first seven behind a 265 SBC, and the last three behind a blown 292" flathead. Although rebuilt two or three times during my term, it was never a nice trans -- I never had more than one synchro that worked well, and it jumped out of gear. I think the rear end was a 3.78.

This spring it was all replaced with a Camaro T-5 (2.XX first gear) with an S-10 shifter, and a Ford 8" with 3.25s. Tires stayed the same at 600-16.

The cruising bottom line: was 65 MPH @ 3000 RPM,
is 80 MPH @ 2200 RPM
...and of course it's a less frantic highway ride.

More importantly, the synchros work EVERY time on EVERY gear, and the choice of gears to be in for any driving situation is really pleasant.

In retrospect, I wish I'd found a 3.5 rear end (launching is a little more leisurely than I'd like), and I'd like to cut the throw of the shifter by 50%. Can be done, I realize.

Net net: it's absolutely an improvement, and I wouldn't go back. I feel a moment's nostalgia for no longer having quite as traditional a setup, but when the next shift goes quietly and smoothly, I remember what the word "progress" means.

 

I agree with you 50. its nice to be able to drive and enjoy the car.

 

My 53 Merc 8CM is backed by a 53 Merc 3/sp O/D,
which is backed by a 2 ft 53 Merc driveline,
which is backed by a 52 Dana 4:11 rearend.

All tucked under a Model A body, that makes it look like a pup!

 

Man alot of guys are running modern trannys and gears
I like to build 'em exactly the way they were, and that means encountering all the same drivability problems they would have had with a rod back in the '40s or '50s.
Just my $.02
-Dean

 

Hell yea........these pictures of toyota and s10 transmissions are enough to make ya puke, after reading through this post for the last few days I learned a few things, first off thanks for starting it because it made me realize what the hell I was doing by putting a muncie in my car.....today I took it out and put in a 39 Buick trans.

 

Does anybody really believe Henry wouldn't have done it if it saved some money? He'd have put a 12 speed in there if it were cheaper. But the reality is 3 speeds are cheaper & what most mfgrs were doing (because of cost).

Most early 5 speeds were for cars with small underpowered engines. The flathead, while not exactly small, is slightly underpowered. The extra gears keep it in a "happy" zone & the overdrive just means you can keep up with traffic - which is a safety aspect in my book.

Of course you can build 'em to keep up with traffic, but it usually involves an LZ gearset & high gears in the rear which equals unsatisfactory stoplight to stoplight performance in my book (and just as expensive as a 5-speed conversion usually).

There is nothing wrong with the 3-speeds - I've got 'em in both my cars right now. I also have most of the parts to convert to 5 speed when the time is right...

Enjoying the "driving experience" of the '40s or '50s doesn't mean I have to suffer with mechanical brakes, notchy steering, trannys that like to jump out of gear & buzzing my engine to keep up with traffic...

That's not to say anyone that chooses to go that route is wrong or dumb for not accepting the progress that's been made. YOU enjoy YOUR car how YOU want to - I'll do the same with mine.

 

Newbie here...with what may be a dumbass question to you guys, but here it goes: (Taking a deep breath)

I have a '48 Ford Coupe with a Flattie that I just blew in July. (Looking for a good 59 A-B style, if you know of any!)

But my question is this; With my 411 rear end, I'm running about 3k rpm's at 60 mph. That is too high and probably contributed to blowing my engine.

Is there an overdrive adapter created for the 3 speed (on the column)?

I'd like to keep the 411 because it has good pick up, but I would like to be able to run about 1200 - 1500 rpms at 65 mph.

Any suggestions?

Just to let you know, I tried to review all of these other threads to prevent asking a question that has been asked 100 times, but I really didn't have time to look at all of them yet. And I'm in a bit of a time crunch as I'm trying to get my Ford back on the road to make it to the James Dean shows in Indy during the last weekend of September.

Any comments, suggestions or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

I understand and respect that. But, I really enjoy driving my car and hate breaking fragile transmissions. My car runs 80+ no prob and AVERAGES 32 mpg.

 

"56 Police Interceptor w/OD"

I believe that's a BW T-85, a very strong trans used in most HD Ford applications, '49-5? Lincolns, and a number of other big cars with and without OD. This trans became the starting point for the BW T-10 four speed that practically everyone used in the early sixties--they put the four speeds into the original case and hung reverse out back in the tail. Anyone with a T-10 will instantly recognize the curve of the side cover on a T-85!

The '48 Ford with 4.11's definitely needs more gears, and all routes are difficult and pricey...Columbia or Mitchell, perhaps a converted toploader based 4/OD...
The Lincoln OD trans from '42-48 sounds like a good idea, aside from rarity and cost, but its solenoid looks to me like a major source of trouble in a '48 Ford--I hope I'm wrong on that, as I have the car and the trans and will do some serious measuring soon. Looks to me like the blasted solenoid will go right through the pedals and frame...

 

Oh, yes, the T-85 has the bigger HD R-11 (I think) overdrive rather than the weaker R-10 that prctically everything else with OD had.

On the '48, other options would be 3.54 rear (good cruise, weaker low end on a heavyish car like this) or the normal and cheap 3.78's, which give acceptable but not great cruise RPM and decent steam at low speed.
I love my flathead powered '48, but this is really too big a car for an egine that size...more gears would really help.

 

Here is a develpment I have found.

I bought the trans adapter from Flathead Jack....$330 shipped because I was told the bolt pattern on the T-5's were different from the 4-speed muncies and Saginaws.

Last weekend, I got a saginaw trans w/ bellhousing and guess what....the T-5 bolts in. The Saginaw will bolt into the adapter from Flathead jack too...no problems and a very nice snug fit.

What gives? is it the spacing of the adapter? Im going to measure the main shafts tonight to see if there are any differences.

If this IS the case, the $175 one from speedway is the way to go...Save a few bucks.

I hate to say this, but I feel "Ripped"

 

My suggestion would be...go w/ a T-5....and save yourself the trouble....get good gas milage, higher HWY speeds and Reliablity. How can you argue w/ a dual carburator set-up, go 75 MPH and still get 25-35 MPG?

Go FAST from the get go and cruise when needed w/ that 4.11 rear.

As flatheadpete and Rusty Rat has said, its only practical; especially if you really like to drive your car...

Dont get me wrong, Im all for Pre-war traditional rides and will own one myself some day. The experience of the 40's and 50's is 'Time Warping' and I truly love it, but if you want to really drive the car everywhere w/ acceptable HWY speeds (and referring to Calif. HWYS especially) and RPM's .... its one of the only ways to go...and money well spent.

Save your 3-speeds and run them too....

 

Don't forget that in the 30's and 40's the long fast roads we have now did not exist.
I have a 3 spd in my roadster but tend not to drive long distances. I had a 5 speed in my coupe and was happier on the longer drives.
If you just want to putt around town a 3 speed is fine.
If you want to cover lots of miles use a 5 speed.
Of course back in the day millions of people covered billions of miles in non-od cars but they did not drive as fast or expect to cover so many miles in a day.
I realise the 32 type k member rules out the use of a 5 speed without butchery so the choice is not so simple in a 32.
Mart.

 

Hi
I´m running late 39 trans behind my slightly souped up French FH with two 97 carbs in a roadster. It has 3,78 gears and 8.20-15 tires. Otherwise no problems but can´t push it over the 100 mph limit... Maybe a T5 with overdrive would be the answer.. It would not make sense otherwise because here the gas is cheap: only about 1,5 USD per liter...
On the other hand why butcher a perfectly good K member like Mart said....

 

The best thing i did was to fit aTremec T5 in my 32B roadster. I'm running a 315ci flatty with a blower and have gone threw 3 39' toploader boxes, which starts getting expensive when a rebuilt box over here will set you back about $1500 plus if you can find them that is. With the Tremec you have the choice of 5 or 6 speed box and you can position the shifter in 3 different places, one of which is in the identical place of a 39 toploader. With the Tremec i can run the quarter mile in high 12 seconds and cruise in fifth at around 90 mph at 1000rpm. Gear ratio on rear is 3.89 running on L78x15. Gas mileage is about 35 miles per gallon as long as i dont get that lead foot syndrome...

 

I feel that on the odd occasion I buy something from FHJ - he's got good stuff, but he thinks very highly of it too.

The S10 bolt pattern is the same as the early 4-speeds. The Ford T5 bolt pattern is different.

I'm still a big fan of the Dwight Bond + early Ford 4-spd hogs-head mini-bell - hard to be for <$150 for everything...

 

I'm still plodding along with my T5 swap in my AV8. I was always a trad rodder and wouldn't think about changing what was correct. However, I drive my car everywhere and that old 3 speed took some of the fun out of long trips not to mention the speed limiting factor of the 3:78 rear end.
I just returned from traveling to and from Bonneville from upstae NY. I shared driving with a couple of guys of two '32 Fords with T5 trannys and flatheads. Both had QC's with around 3:20 gears. We were able to cruise at 85+ (sometimes hitting 100) with the RPM's not going over 2500. The all syncro trans was a pleasure to drive even in that sucky Chicago traffic. I couldn't ever imagine driving my car with that ancient transmission again. If you want to drive country roads and take forever getting anywhere the old 3 speed will do, but if you really want to have fun and get there in this life time then OD is the way to go.

 

I know fuck all about gearboxes and ratios .


I've just spent the last hour reading , re-reading , linking , thinking and re-reading again .

I now know a lot more than fuck all , and I'll keep on learning .

Thanks guys for all the knowledge , and especially Kilroy for starting a fantastic thread .

God I love the HAMB