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Tech: Pontiac Engines

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by axle, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. thanks for the info. I tried it but, could not find what you wrote- 'upload file'
     
  2. About 50 years ago I replaced the boat anchor 348 tri power in my 58 chevy Impala with a 63 421 four bbl mill. It was a oil burning fast engine. used a quart every twenty miles. fouled plugs. I don't remember the oil filter never changed the oil. I pulled the Pontiac and was going to install a 283 and that never happened. I sold the impala with the dissembled348 tri power and all in the trunk for $300 I had gave $40 for the 421 and sold it for $90. Regrettable Things like that have led to me being a hoarder. You have something and you sell it. then you spend the money. and you no longer have the item or the money. You develope the no sell hoarder mentality.
     
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  3. when you hit reply at the bottom there is a blue box that stated post reply. to the right a rectangular box UPLOAD A FILE and to the right of that MORE OPTIONS. hit the UPLOAD A FILE.
     
  4. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    I wouldn’t use a bolt-on anything to ID a block imo. That goes for heads, valley pans (pcv location), etc. From a quick glance all 421s were 2 freeze plugs (starting in 67 they used 3 plugs and would be 428s which is actually cast into the side of the block). All had 4-bolt main blocks. So for me when I’m walking a swap meet any 2-freeze plug 4 bolt main block I will try to buy regardless if it’s a 389 or 421 and regardless if it’s a pre or post ‘64 (block or bell housing mounted starter). Once the quick ID is done then you can look at engine and date codes, machined pads and “mountain” peaks on the rear. If you are paying big money then I would certainly use everything I have to ID it properly. If it’s a “just get this old block out of here for $75” then I just snag it and check it later but my rule of 2 and 3 freeze plugs works for me and is a quick look type stuff. Regards, Randy


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  5. '51 Norm
    Joined: Dec 6, 2010
    Posts: 748

    '51 Norm
    Member
    from colorado

    All of the adaptors that I have are the aluminum angled type. I just grabbed one off a junk engine (a 350 I think) when putting the 455 together.
    It never occurred to me that there were adapters out there that may not fit.
     
  6. Ok 31 Hot Rod Guy's 62 has a 90 degree aluminum adaptor. He posted a picture of it. Likely its original to his car.First one I remember seeing. However I once had a 421 about 50 years ago. I don't remember anything about the oil filter it had.
     
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  7. 32Stoker
    Joined: Jul 1, 2015
    Posts: 339

    32Stoker
    Member
    from CA, WA

    Let me know if anyone has a Pontiac 6x2 or 4x2 intake they want to sell. Thanks!
     
  8. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    IMG_6293.JPG

    Here are two on my Craigslist page. They are in Indy (about 2-3 hours away from me). If you need info from them let me know. I’m willing to go look at them too as well for you. Regards, Randy



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  9. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 533

    slack
    Member

    Attached Files:

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  10. RT468
    Joined: Apr 7, 2019
    Posts: 66

    RT468

    Ok, while on the topic of Pontiac engines, I have a few questions about a block I have. The block in question is missing the last digit on the casting. Only has 538818 and it does not appear as if it was ground off. Has 4 bolt mains. Dated F-15-1 and has a 12B engine code with 288738 on the front of the block by the head.So far what Ive found the 12B puts this as a 62 389 385hp . Have not measured the bore yet. The 288738 is that a partial VIN, did Pontiac blocks that early even have VINs stamped or is # something different ??
     
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  11. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    I will take a shot at this. Block should have 2 freeze plugs per side, no provision for block mounted starter, cylinders should be chamfered. The casting number should be 6 digits if this is a Super Duty block of 538181 (you show two 8s back to back). Build date is June 15, 1961 and production for ‘62 model year vehicles didn’t start until August 15, 1961 but that block would be considered a ‘62 with the 12B code (385 HP 3-speed manual trans application). The other number (288...) is an EUN (Engine unit number) and is not the VIN. Pontiac did not start stamping VINs until the ‘68 MY across the board. It should have 4-bolt main as you noted. I would interested in seeing a picture of the block from the bottom pls. That is a rare piece you have there. Regards, Randy


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  12. RT468
    Joined: Apr 7, 2019
    Posts: 66

    RT468

     

    Attached Files:

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  13. RT468
    Joined: Apr 7, 2019
    Posts: 66

    RT468

    I'll have to take a few more pics. All I had was the side with the casting and just beneath the head with the engine cide
     
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  14. Tomi Joonas
    Joined: Apr 12, 2020
    Posts: 1

    Tomi Joonas

    Greetings from Finland.
    New member here and made account moment ago.

    Im trying to help my friend to buid Pontiac 400 engine.
    He bought recently 1967 #061 heads with minor porting job done.
    I'v not seen heads yet hows the runners look like.
    There is very little knowledge out there about specs of these heads.
    So far i have found out that combustion chamber is 72cc, 2.11 int and 1.77 ex valves.
    They should flow around 200+ cfm (stock).

    Pressed studs are going to be replaced with threaded ones.

    Friend want to use old school ram air iv cam.
    Cr will be around 10:1.
    Question is... How much cam lift can these head handle without milling spring pockets?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  15. Starlinerdude
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 149

    Starlinerdude
    Member
    from Washington

    It's all dependent on the springs and retainers you use and whether or not you run the longer ram air valves,the combination of spring installed height,the spring coil bind,guide to retainer clearance all have bearing on how much lift you can tolerate.Pontiacs in general aren't set up for lots of valve lift most factory cams with the exception of the ram air 4 didn't have much over .400 lift including the earlier performance grinds.If you aren't running the 1.65 ratio ram air rockers you won't get terribly high lift the cam is ground for a 1.65 ratio unless it some aftermarket cam that is ground to equal the ram air 4 profile with the stock 1.5 rockers.I'm glad your asking questions because this is probably the most common reason people have had trouble bending pushrods in Pontiacs over the years.
     
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  16. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,868

    CGkidd
    Member

    New to Pontiac engines. I got the odd ball baby to all of you. 1962 Tempest 195 four cylinder with a stock 4 barrel and a 4 soeed. Getting ready to rebuild it. Wiped cam lobe when I bought the car. She was not rattling but no power. Might have a line on a 9770716 head for it. 28339.jpeg KIMG0440.jpeg KIMG0437.jpeg KIMG0439.jpeg

    Sent from my E6910 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Pontiac crank question. Will the 4.25 stroker crank that Butler performance sells fit in my 59 block? If so will my 59 flywheel bolt on to the flange? I’m still trying to learn about all the potinac compatibility.


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  18. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,096

    Joe H
    Member

    Jim Butler will know, just ask him.
     
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  19. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Butler Performance says their cranks are for 61 an older. Does anyone know what is different with the different cranks?


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  20. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,474

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    I used to follow Nunzi from Brooklyn NY.. His heads were some of the best..

    I always liked the good old 421 with a set of close chambered heads. The 67 670 heads came with the bigger valves but the cyls needed unshrouded..

    Nunzi_The_Pontiac_Expert.jpg photo-copy-2.jpg
     
  21. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    Nunzi was the man! Randy


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  22. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,474

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    I'd love to have one of his versions of the O68 camshaft. I had one in a 421, I think it was numbered 2041. It ran so strong.. I think it had more lift @.50 then stock.. Pontiac had some of the best cam people around back then, it was always smart to stay close to the stock grinds.. That 63 GP belonged to there top cam man Mac McKellar... Notice how it had a dual master cyl with an adjustable proportion valve and HYDRO BOOST but came with 8 lug drum brakes, very interesting!

    5.jpg 1.png 2.png 3.png 4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  23. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 383

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

  24. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,474

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Thanks Toxic.. It looks like 63 and down are different from 64 and up.. That's not too hard to remember, in Pontiac world everything is 64 up or down..
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
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  25. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank you toxic! That helps! That gives me an idea where the changes took place. I’m stuck between using my later 63 389 but having to fabricate clutch linkage or run the stock set up as far as clutch (came with a 59 engine) either way I thought about adding cubic inches but it sounds like I’m making my life more difficult.

    Scott


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  26. Duck's Goat
    Joined: Nov 2, 2010
    Posts: 71

    Duck's Goat
    Member

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  27. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 383

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

    If you can borrow a newer crank I would look to see what is different. It may not be that bad to modify.
     
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  28. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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  29. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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