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Tech: Pontiac Engines

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by axle, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. Not to take away from Mickey, but: its very rare NOT to find an inline 4, 6 or 8 cyl inline OHV that has "side ports" aka, intake & exhaust on the same side of the head.

    More than once I've smiled a bit, listening to somebody express their desire to build a "crossflow head" for their banger, when a cross-sectional view shows some obvious advantages to the more staid, traditional "factory" approach.
     
    applekrate and Skankin' Rat Fink like this.
  2. Darren J. Shank
    Joined: Aug 7, 2017
    Posts: 1

    Darren J. Shank

    GREAT STORIES, GREAT INFO-THANK YOU !!!
     
  3. keithnh
    Joined: Mar 25, 2018
    Posts: 1

    keithnh

    New to board, found this thread looking for original IH of RAIV heads. Trying to modernize factory iron heads a bit. PAC beehive springs, 7mm Ti valves, lighter Romac damper so valve train will spin up faster. 72 400 block I'm trying to open-chamber mod a set of 670's to get 87cc with. Like the fuller short turn. Will end up a dual quad 400/444ci in a 71 Formula. 2 Holley 4360's to start.
     
  4. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    67 and later were 400 not a 389 like was stated in the original write up.
     
  5. Jim Lato
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 568

    Jim Lato
    Member

    Hey, i got a question for my 1955 pontiac chieftain and it may seem the answer is obvious but i want to know why.
    the coolant gusher, was wondering how critical it is to have it in? i have them out right now cause i forgot to slide them back in... no biggy to do it but i guess i was wondering for those of you that have had more experience with the 287. i know the cool the heads, valves. but since they arent in there and coolant is still going through the passage, wouldnt it continue to cool? or do these point directly at the valve location
     
  6. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,371

    wvenfield
    Member

    They do direct coolant directly on the valve seats. Will it still cool without them? I imagine so. Will long term reliability be affected? I never took them out so I can not speak with authority, but I would say yes.
     
    Jim Lato and cshades like this.
  7. Jim Lato
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 568

    Jim Lato
    Member

    thats kind of what i was guessing as well. just curious is anyone really found if they were a super critical part. but if it is extending the life of valves id say its a good reason to put them in!
    thanks Wvenfield
     
  8. Smoke4570
    Joined: May 22, 2015
    Posts: 14

    Smoke4570

    I have a 1955 Chieftain with the original 287. When I pulled the heads to redo them, one head had a tube the other did not. At the time I'd had the car for a couple years and had no issues with it. I did however find a pair of NOS tubes to put in when I put it back together.


    Sent from my SM-G920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Jim Lato likes this.
  9. Jim Lato
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 568

    Jim Lato
    Member

    Interesting one was missing. Probably the same thing I did, forgot one on the bench. Yea I’m gonna put them back in since I have both I might as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Rad man. I always pick up info Pontiac from you when you chime in that I really never knew. I appreciate you my friend.

    Old thread and I am ashamed to say that I somehow missed it.
     
  11. I know its a old thread. however I reciently have added to my Pontiac collection. two 316 engines and a 60 389. And I have a 56 passenger car stick bell housing. And I also would like a answer to this question. I also have a GMCTruck bell and know a 4 speed will bolt to it. But still would like to make use of the passenger bell.
     
  12. ClassicDriver
    Joined: Mar 8, 2010
    Posts: 115

    ClassicDriver
    Member


    Agreed. I have a '59 389... with a stick bell housing and was told... "this will bolt to any modern trans" - haven't attempted it yet. With only knowing that, it is my understanding (I could be wrong) that the "stick shift bell housing" is the KEY.... If you have the "stick bell" for an early Pontiac (pre POB -Pontiac-Old-Buick). That stick bell is your ability to hook early Poncho to modern trans...

    For what it is worth...
     
  13. Im pretty certian a 59 passenger bell or any GMC truck bell will accept a modern 4 speed. What I have is a 56 bell from a 316 passenger car. and it in its present form will not accept any of the usual GM transmissions. I do have the 56 three speed that fits it. pontiac eng 013.JPG pontiac eng 013.JPG pontiac eng 002.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    Bowtie Coupe and Ottomotive like this.
  14. Ok I used to have a 55 GMC 287. and the water pump was bad. I checked and the water pump on the 4 cyl tempest I have was the exact same thing. I searched EBay and the V8 pumps where pricey. However I bought a NOS 4 cyl water pump for $5 plus shipping.
     
  15. The 56 bell only works with the smaller trans, yes, you could make it work with others but the center hole needs to be machined larger.
     
    Bowtie Coupe likes this.
  16. Mark Grabo
    Joined: Jan 26, 2018
    Posts: 77

    Mark Grabo
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    trying to explain to that parts kid what i need on my OT 1967 firebird,( 73 455 block , 70 400 heads, 66 Tri power,) and all i asked for is a thermostat gasket the old parts guys (guys i went to school with) all get a chuckle out of it
     
    Deuces likes this.
  17. Normant93
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 148

    Normant93
    Member

    Ok, since we're talking about engine and trans compatibility……..just curious, does anyone know if the 55-59 4 speed V8 automatic is the same bolt pattern as the 53-54 inline 8? I know the chin mount V8s will fit in the 53 -54 cars, just wondering if the earlier trans will bolt up to the V8.
     
  18. I assume you are wanting to put an early V/8 in your 53 Pontiac and keep your original 53 trans? I don't know for sure but I'd bet if you used the 55-early 56 dual coupling bell, your 53 trans would bolt up BUT! If it was my car I'd use a 55-early 56 dual coupling trans in your car. The motor mounts bolts to the 55-56 bell like your 53 does and I'm told the later [55-56] trans is superior to the 48-53 trans although I don't have first hand knowledge of this.
     
  19. Poncho60
    Joined: Jan 23, 2011
    Posts: 259

    Poncho60
    Member
    from N Illinois

    Minor point but the 55/early 56 hydro is the dual range, not the dual coupling (also known as Jetaway among others)
     
  20. question. someone was telling me you could identify a 389 or a 421 by the angle of the oil filter?
     
  21. Poncho60
    Joined: Jan 23, 2011
    Posts: 259

    Poncho60
    Member
    from N Illinois

    Not necessarily. Usually required with the cast iron long branch hi-perf exhaust manifolds. Some of the hi-perf 421s like the 376 hp versions came w those manifolds, stock. Lesser hp 421s did not.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  22. '51 Norm
    Joined: Dec 6, 2010
    Posts: 748

    '51 Norm
    Member
    from colorado

    I have the run of the mill oil filter adapter on my 455 with the cast iron long branch exhaust manifolds (aka RA III). I don't see any interference.
     
    CGkidd and loudbang like this.
  23. I would trust the source who told you this. They probably cannot tie their own shoes. Answer- no. Full size models through 1970, regardless of year or size, all had 90 degree filter housings. Same for the 67-9 birds.
    The 64 Tempest 326 and 389 GTO were the first to use the sharper angled oil filter housing.
     
    Bowtie Coupe, loudbang and Old wolf like this.
  24. For Pontiac power fans, the 22nd annual Pontiac Heaven weekend will beheld November 1-3 at Wild Horse Pass in Chandler, az. Fri and Sat welcome all brands 1981 and older for nostalgia drag racing and show, swap meet, 1/4 mile drags. There will also be tours of classic salvage yards in the area and those who preregister can also get a private tour of the original location of Pontiac Heaven ( about 250 Pontiac parts cars remaining ) , plus a meet and greet and burger burn and live band. Sunday the 3rd is reserved only for any vehicle as long as it is Real Pontiac V8 powered. Sunday also offers 1/4 mile drags, show, swap , tech Q&A session and add an autocross/road course that is about 1/2 mile long! You can even run open headers on the course. more info avail, search Pontiac Heaven. Proceeds benefit my Pontiac Heaven Museum project here in Arizona. A planned museum that celebrates the Pontiac V8 era 1955-81. Over 400 Pontiacs in the collection and about 60 set aside to be restored for the museum. thanks
     
  25. NO!! There's a variety of Pontiac oil filter "adapters" that are interchangeable from one Pontiac motor to another. Just like if the dipsticks on one side it's a 348 and 409 on the other. Since the stick goes into the oil pan on those motors the pan can end up on either motor, so it's NOT a way to tell shit.
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  26. Something else that no one mentioned about these housings- The 90 degree has the 1/8" pipe hole for the sender on the outside. The one that tilts inward has it on the rear. I have seen the 90 degree one on 'restored' GTOs ( wrong one ),I was a judge that time. It was something few would notice. Not correct but, it did fit. Of course any of them fit to the engine block. Some of the issues can be - clearance for tube headers, etc. I would think the angled one would fit all applications as it takes up less room. Now, WHY did Pontiac continue to make 2 different ones if the angled one fits everything? hmm
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  27. All of the steel canister adapters I have on my 316, and my 60 389 are 90 degree. The rest I have that are aluminum are angled. Ive never seen a 90 degree aluminum adapter for the spin on filters. or a angled steel canister one. Now where the 421 engines in 62 equipped with spin on or canister oil filters?
     
  28. I probably have 100 alum 90 degree housings. They were used, at least, 1961-70 full size and 67-9 Firebirds. Pretty sure 1960 was the first year for the spin on. If not '60 definately 1961. If you look at any full size Pontiac 60-70, it should have an alum housing unless it was changed. I currently have over 400 Pontiacs here in Az at my 2 locations, have owned well over 600. This gives me a great reference 'library'. many of them have been off the road for 25-40 years, others less. Can post a pic but, not sure how to do that anymore. I used to do it through photobucket but, they charge now. Hoping this helps you.
     
    Unique Rustorations likes this.

  29. I do not have any cars, at this time, with the full size long branch manifolds that require the adaptor. I would guess that either housing could be used with the adaptor. Do you know for sure?
     
  30. As old & computer illerate as I am I am able to post pictures. Just click on to upload a file. go to pictures in your puter. the open a file and select the photo. For a time the Hamb went thru a supposed upgrade and I couldn't post pictures. However that has been fixed.
     

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