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Tech: Installing a T-5 behind a 235 ci Six in a 55-59 Chevy truck w/ short shifter

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 1958apache, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    I love Tech week. I have learned so much from this site, so I hope I can give some back with this post. It's late and tired so I am just going to get the pictures up tonight and I'll edit all the words tomorrow. And edit and add details tomorrow. I'm going to reserve the next two posts on this thread for updates to keep all my info at the top.

    Hope this helps. Tomorrow I'll post some links to the T-5 threads I got alot of my research from.

    [​IMG]

    All the parts needed to do the swap. Original 3 or 4-speed bellhousing, original 235 flywheel (resurfaced at the local machine shop for around $30, original 235 pressure plate, new flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, T-5 transmission, S-10 clutch, machined spacer from my buddy "Inline", 1/2 bolts, washers, lock washers, alignment tool, original 1-7/8 throwout bearing found at American Classic truck parts. Not shown is the short shifter.

    [​IMG]

    The new mill, out of a 1956 Chevy car with hydromatic
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Torque converter off, flexplate is next
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    Take torque converter off
    [​IMG]

    <TABLE cellPadding=6 width=400><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>New motor with the automatic transmission removed</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    [​IMG]

    Ready to be cleaned up and new parts installed
    [​IMG]

    The Loot in the back of my jeep
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    The new T-5 out of an 1984 S-10 w/ a 2.5L with only 74,000 miles, also snagged the driveshaft to shorten and weld to the original driveshaft.
    [​IMG]

    From this website, http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm

    I found out what the barcode tag meant as far as gear ratios.

    1352-145 GM 1985-86 S-Truck 2.5 L4-2.8 V6 R
    Rev 3.76
    1st 3.78
    2nd 2.18
    3rd 1.42
    4th 1.00
    5th 0.72
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  2. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    <TABLE cellPadding=6 width=400><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>All the distributors, new driveshaft, t-5, s-10 clutch</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    [​IMG]

    Engine, T-5, original bellhousing
    [​IMG]

    New motor stand and ready to clean and paint
    [​IMG]

    Mock up
    [​IMG]

    Engine degreaser and scrubbing the motor
    [​IMG]

    All clean and ready for some paint
    [​IMG]

    Engine Clean
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    Engine Clean, see the painted bellhousing in the background[​IMG]

    Motor painted[​IMG]

    Motor and transmission all painted up, transmission painted with Cast Aluminum Engine Paint
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    T-5 cleaned with a 1" wire wheel in a die grinder and sprayed with Cast Aluminum Engine Paint, The 4 transmission mounting holes need to be englarged to 1/2". They are close, but trust me it's too tight to get them lined up with the bellhousing. Also the top passenger side bolt is really tight against the transmission housing and is hard to get a socket on. I used a very shallow 3/4 socket on 3/8" drive with a 6" extension to get to tighten the bolts. 1/2" drive is too thick.
    [​IMG]

    Old motor covered in oil from bad rings and blow by from trying to do 60 mph to get to work
    [​IMG]

    Old motor mounts that will be replaced while the motor is out
    [​IMG]

    Throttle pivot mount different than automatic
    [​IMG]

    Front clip pulled for the ease of installation
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    Old motor that needs to come out
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    Difference in mounts between the auto and manual throttle bracket
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    Ready to pull the engine out using the head bolts to anchor the engine hoist
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    Motor is coming out... I bought a leveler, that I have never used before, well worth the $50 and made this a one man job
    [​IMG]

    At the halfway point
    [​IMG]

    Nothing bolted together
    [​IMG]

    All the parts needed for a T-5 swap behind a 235.
    Original 3 or 4 speed Bellhousing
    --- 235 Manual Flywheel, resurfaced to prevent chatter
    --- 235 Flexplate
    --- Stock 9" S-10 Clutch
    --- Adapter Plate
    --- Stock 235 Throwout Bearing, 1-7/8&#8221; tall
    --- New Flywheel bolts
    --- Flexplate bolts
    --- ½ in Grade 8 bolts, 2 -- 2.0&#8221; (Top) and 2 -- 3&#8221; long (Bottom), with washers and lock washers
    [​IMG]

    I had not put a transmission and clutch together before, so I referenced my 1958 shop manual. The order to put everything together is as follows.
    1) Bolt the bellhousing to the engine.
    2) Slip the flywheel up into the bellhousing and bolt it on the the crank
    3) Slip the clutch and pressure plate together and just start a few of the pressure plate bolts to the flywheel. MAKE SURE THE SNOUT OF THE CLUTCH is facing the transmission.
    4) Push the alignment tool into the clutch and the stub into the pilot bushing in the crank. This keeps the clutch aligned while you tighten the pressure plate bolts.
    4) Tighten the pressure plate bolts, slowly easing in the bolts all the way. I went around 4-5 times to prevent the pressure plate from distorting or cocking the clutch.
    5) Remove the alignment tool.
    5) Install the clutch fork on the ball in the back of the bellhousing. I replaced the clutch fork ball retainer spring (Got it from American Classic truck parts).
    6) Install the throwout bearing on the clutch fork. Lube the landing the clutch fork rides on and the groove inside the bearing that rides on the candlestick of the transmission.
    7) Slide the input shaft of the transmission, through the spacer, bellhousing, throwout bearing, pressure plate, clutch disc, flywheel, and finally into the pilot bushing. You might have to wiggle the transmission to get it into the pilot bushing. Mine was really tight because the motor was a automatic transmission motor it's entire life and there was no wear on the pilot bushing.
    8) Install the top bolts (Grade 8) with washers and lock washers through the transmission and run the bolts through the bottom holes and put washer, lock washer, and nut inside the bellhousing.
    9) Fill transmission with ATF or Gear oil. I used ATF.
    10) Attach speedo
    11) Crack a beer and bask in your accomplishment.

    [​IMG]

    Bellhousing I used, you can see the casting numbers to cross reference bellhousings
    [​IMG]

    Old Motor with the original 3 speed on the coluimn
    [​IMG]

    New motor with the Sherman Williams overhaul and the T-5 bolted to check fitment of the spacer
    [​IMG]

    Motor mated to T-5 with a spacer in between
    [​IMG]

    Clutch fork completely worn out... this might be why the 3-speed didn't shift right
    [​IMG]

    Motor, spacer, and transmission back apart to put in a new clutch fork, retainer spring, and bolt everything back together for final assembly
    [​IMG]

    Close up
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  4. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Stock S-10 T-5 shifter in a 1958 chevy truck with a spacer
    [​IMG]

    Shifter on backwards, this was mock up before I got longer bolts, changed when I put it in for good.
    Short Shifter, Bent Shaft, T-5 in a 1958 chevy truck with a spacer
    [​IMG]

    Shifter in correct w/ short shift and longer bolts, they were metric, and I think they were 1.5"
    Shifter in 1st gear (bent w/short shifter)
    [​IMG]

    Shifter in reverse (bent w/short shifter)
    [​IMG]

    Again, different angle, Shifter in first (bent w/short shifter)
    [​IMG][/I]

    Shifter in reverse (bent w/short shifter)
    [​IMG][/I]

    T-5 at home in my 1958 Chevy Truck, no crossmember as the original 3-speed didn't have one. I was worried that a rear crossmember would crack the transmission case. If I'm wrong and I break a transmission, I'll go buy another one and I'll have learned something.
    [​IMG]

    New transmission is 3-4 inches longer, need to shorten the stock driveshaft. The new driveshaft length for me ended up being 50 1/8 inches. This was measured by inserting the yoke with the u-joint horizontal and inserted to the worn part of the yoke. Measure center to center with both ends of the u-joint in the horizontal plane.
    Used a car driveshaft and the yoke from the S-10. The stock truck driveshaft has a smaller neck and doesn&#8217;t work well to be shortened.


    T-5 with Short shifter, you can see the square block above the transmission
    [​IMG]

    T-5 with short shifter in 1958 Chevy truck behind a 235
    [​IMG]

    New motor in
    [​IMG]

    New motor, see the new transmission mounts
    [​IMG]

    Motor going in. Taken with my GoPro camera, playing with timelapse. Hopefully I can put a video together of it going back together.
    [​IMG]


    2 updates to follow... to tired for tonight.
    Short shifter
    And spacer details
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
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  5. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Here is how I made the T-5 short shifter.

    I used the "Making a Short Shifter for a T-5 Tranny" post from Stovebolt as a guide.
    [​IMG]
    http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/shifter/index.html

    I got the the help of my buddy Dave, "Inline", to make the 1" thick plate. Dave had built a foundry furnace a year or so ago and just recently purchased some casting sand and was looking for an easy part to try out some casting techniques before making some more complex parts. The short shift spacer was a perfect candidate. He learned most of the casting and foundry stuff from The Hamb. Here's a link to his blog detailing how he cast the part, I just copied the pics for reference.

    http://vintagemetalworks.blogspot.com/2011/08/vintage-metalworks-and-foundry.html

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    This is the cast spacer on top of a 4x4 transmission he was using for mockup.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  6. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Update #2 as promised.

    I am suprised no one caught the body shim spacers in the earlier pictures. The original spacer I used was a little too thin, preventing the transmission to go into gear while the truck was running. It would shift fine with the truck turned off. The clearance between the candlestick (throwout bearing shaft) was too close to the fingers off the pressure plate and rubbed. I loosened the transmission mounting bolts and slide in some body shims and checked the shifting of the truck while it was running. No issues shifting.

    I called up my buddy that made the adapter and he said he would make me a new one 1/16" thicker. I drove the truck with the shims in place for about a week to and from work with no issues. I finally got some time last night to pull the original spacer and replace it with the thicker one. Here's how it went down.

    Body shim a temporary solution until the new adapter plate was made... original one was about a 1/16 of an inch too thin
    [​IMG]

    You can see the gap in this picture provided by the shims, the new adapter does not have this gap
    [​IMG]

    New adapter plate on the left. Rev 2.0, just a little thicker so I can remove the body shims spacing out the trans to get it to shift. The candlestick on the input shaft that the throwout bearing rides on was just a little longer than the 3 and 4 speeds that were used for mockup.
    [​IMG]

    The new spacer is in and shifts great. It does not have any shims, just the spacer.

    I did learn to drain the transmission before dropping the transmission. I don't have a transmission jack and I wasn't good enough to reinstall the T-5 without spilling half the oil out of the tailshaft. I had ATF all over me and the garage. What a mess!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  7. Rudvirus
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 84

    Rudvirus
    Member

    were can you get a spacer plate made at? i am so using this for a guide
     
  8. butcherted
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 762

    butcherted
    Member
    from hagerstown

    Will this set up work on GMC 6 ?
     
  9. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    I'll take some better pics of the spacer plate tonight. My buddy Dave made this spacer. His name on here is "Inline" if your interested.
     
  10. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Yup. I believe they use the same bellhousings.
     
  11. xmb63
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 55

    xmb63
    Member
    from pittsburgh

    I need to do this swap on my car. It would be nice to have a syncroed first gear and a few more highway gears.
     
  12. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Before the swap I was able to run at 55-60 mph on the highway with the motor about to grenade. With bad rings (motor sat for 20 years) I would get terrible blow by and push oil out the breather. After the better motor, and the T-5, I can run at 85 mph on the highway at a much lower rpm, no tach so I don't have definite rpms to quote. I have the stock gears in the rear, 4.11 I believe, and it is geared perfectly. I'll post tonight what casting numbers to look for when looking for a bellhousing. I decided to go with a spacer rather than cut and grind the input shaft as I have heard of people breaking shafts this way.

    All in all, it was a super easy swap. I had never taken a transmission or clutch out of a car before, so this was all new to me. :cool:

     
  13. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,232

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great thread! thanks for all the effort in posting the photos. I appreciate all the great tech and build posts on the HAMB, but get disappointed when there is a gap while "this is where I did some fabrication magic"
     
  14. Excellent tech article and thanks. Planning on using a Camaro box mated to a S10 tail shaft housing on my 55 for the 2.95 first gear.
     
  15. BillM
    Joined: May 26, 2007
    Posts: 247

    BillM
    Member

    You might want to verify the gear ratios in the trans before you get it all bolted up. Put it in first and rotate the out put shaft till the input makes one turn, while counting the number of turns of the output. Masking tape alignment marks help too.
     
  16. Gabriel Howard
    Joined: Jan 2, 2009
    Posts: 264

    Gabriel Howard
    Member
    from OKC
    1. Okie Hambers

    thanks for the post
     
  17. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Thanks for the comment. I need to spend some more time tonight adding some descriptions to the pics and tips and traps I learned from the build.

    I think the 3.76 is perfect for my needs, but I use my truck as a truck, I don't think twice about loading the bed with greasy car parts, gravel, or furniture. I also plan to put a hitch on it for any hauling duties, so for me, I think the 2.95 would lug too much at slow speeds and I'd have to ride the clutch more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  18. jgang
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 236

    jgang
    Member
    from hamburg ny

    awesome tech chad, thanks. you got my vote
     
  19. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Nice! Added to the T5 Tech link...
     
  20. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,874

    brokenspoke
    Member

    Just curious....how accurate is the speedometer after swap?
     
  21. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Without the stock s10 external speedometer gear reducer (not sure of the true name) that was on the T-5 when I pulled it from the junkyard, the speedo was off by 15 mph. I found it on my workbench tonight and installed it. I'll let you know tomorrow how much it is off with the reducer.
     
  22. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,393

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Excellent tech, and pics.
    How did the driveshaft work out? Did it have to be shortened, very much?
     
  23. fordcragar
    Joined: Dec 28, 2005
    Posts: 3,180

    fordcragar
    Member
    from Yakima WA.

    Nice tech article. I'll be doing a similar swap in a 56 PU, fairly soon.
     
  24. how much and where can adaptor plate be purchased, the one between transmission and bellhousing.
     
  25. bob giles
    Joined: Dec 4, 2007
    Posts: 147

    bob giles
    Member

    Did the same swap with a '55.2 1/2 ton. Buffalo enterprises makes adapters but he advised me to just shorten collar and input shaft and have a custom disc made. This I did and I'm happy with the results.
     
  26. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    Different ways to do the same thing... I personally like this way as I plan to drive my truck across the country and want to be able to get parts if something happens. I didn't want to have anything custom other than the spacer. If I get in to transmission trouble 500 or 1000 miles from home, I can drop the trans and have a new one installed in an hour.
     
  27. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    I ended up having it shortened 2-3 inches. The T-5 is much longer. My driveshaft ended up being 50 1/8" long. The yokes splines are different from the 3-speed to the T-5
     
  28. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    I installed the reducer last night and on the drive to work today the speedometer was spot on... I compared it to the GPS on my phone and it was within 5 mph... My speedo bounces around alot, damn Ohio roads, but when I got it to hold steady on some smooth pavement at 60 mph it was within 1-2 mph.

    Good enough for me. I'm glad I found a non-WC with a mechanical speedo. The transmission only had 70K miles on it so it shifts like a new car

    This is the reducer that was on the transmission when I pulled it from the junkyard.
    [​IMG]
     
  29. 1950heavymetal
    Joined: Sep 9, 2008
    Posts: 323

    1950heavymetal
    Member

    Great tech article! I was looking for this info!
     
  30. 1958apache
    Joined: Jun 7, 2009
    Posts: 51

    1958apache
    Member

    This is the bellhousing I used. Compare the numbers and see if they are the same.

    [​IMG]
     

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