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Tech: Cheap Ford Falcon Disc Brakes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Drive Em, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,912

    need louvers ?
    Member

    The original M/C on that might have been a daul chamber or single, but being a drum/drum type M/C would have had residual valves built in. With the disc front a 10lbs residual would be a bad thing. I didn't do this particular conversion on my Falcon (a '62) but I used a '72 Maverick disc/drum M/C, which puts a residual in the rear line but not in the front. Perfect! Other than a bit of running linesit bolted in place.
     
  2. jazzbum
    Joined: Apr 5, 2005
    Posts: 598

    jazzbum
    Member

    i did a '67 dual chamber upgrade on my '65, but i still have all drum brakes. i would think a new disc/drum master cylinder would be an absolute must with this job, but i didn't see it listed with the rest of the parts. i assume you did some kind of disc brake upgrade on the front of your bird that necessitated that maverick cylinder, right, louvers?
     
  3. unkledaddy
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 2,858

    unkledaddy
    Member

    Great post, thanks.
     
  4. If you don't have the ability to weld or fabricate the brackets and spacers an inexpensive alternative is a company called Scarebird.com I used their 4 lug kit on my wife's Comet Wagon. They supply the brackets and the part numbers for the calipers, rotors etc. even the brake line application.

    thought it might be of interest for those who don't fabricate or weld.
     
  5. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,912

    need louvers ?
    Member


    Absolutely! I went with the Scarebird stuff that Don mentions above. For as inexpensive as it was, I couldn't have designed and fabricated it myself as cheaply, and it kept my 4 lug pattern. Real simple stuff.
     
  6. conmech
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 7

    conmech
    Member

    Oh, you so smart...... lol, thanx buddy. Sent him a pm. Waiting on reply


    I am wanting to go 5 lug. Willing to pay for fab work..........
     
  7. jazzbum
    Joined: Apr 5, 2005
    Posts: 598

    jazzbum
    Member

    the scarebird still leaves you with 4 lugs? same pattern, 4x4.5? that's bitchin, that kit's looking better and better for the money. did you have to go to larger wheels?
     
  8. Speedway sells those brackets (they are cheap, but I think more than $8), BUT they are only 3/16" plate. Too thin IMO for front calipers.
     
  9. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,912

    need louvers ?
    Member


    Yes, unfortunately you do. You can't run the 13" stockers or the 14" mid sixties four lug stuff. The early seventies Maverick four luggers will work just fine, and there are several cool '49 and later Ford caps that will fit and keep you somewhat stock looking. The other cool thing is that the hub to hub width stays virtually the same! Super easy stuff to do, and it comes with brake hose and mastercylinder recomendations in the instuction sheet.
     
  10. Too thin? A truck frame isn't even that thick. Are you planning on stopping at speeds over 150mph?
     
  11. mark at scarebird does top quality and has fantastic customer service after the fact unlike other companies and that is worth every dime you spend with him.
     
  12. Hmmmm, I wonder why most kits out there waste their money cutting them from 3/8" plate when clearly 1/2 that thickness works :rolleyes:
    Even the thin t bucket wire wheel type brackets are 1/4".

    75% and up, of all your stopping power is in the front, now lets say you clip a pothole when doing a panic. Please do me a favor, drive in front of my car, not behind it, thanks :D
     
  13. Scarebird
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 843

    Scarebird
    Alliance Vendor
    from ABQ, USA

    We have a new 4 lug setup that you can run the 3-1/2" offset OEM drum wheels, though the hubs (cannot use the OEM drum hubs :( ) and brackets with stud girdle run $275 plus shipping.

    Several issues with the set shown need to be addressed. I am constantly baffled why people insist on using the Granada rotor. It uses the wrong bearing (they can be changed and the pilot snout is too big for the early OEM mags. I would use the 68-69 non-Boss Mustang rotor in it's place here. Mounting the bracket from behind here is also an issue; the back of the spindle holes are counterbored, but not to a set depth unlike the front.

    I would use the repop OEM 65-67 disc if large (11"+) rotors are desired - far less headache and about the same cost.
     
  14. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,912

    need louvers ?
    Member


    Curious about this deal... When you say OEM wheels, are you talking 13" or 14"...
     
  15. Scarebird
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 843

    Scarebird
    Alliance Vendor
    from ABQ, USA

    14". the 13's may fit but don't hold your breath.
     
  16. jazzbum
    Joined: Apr 5, 2005
    Posts: 598

    jazzbum
    Member

    good info here, thanks fellas.
     
  17. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,618

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So buy four of the brackets and double them up if you're worried about thickness.
     
  18. T.L.
    Joined: May 24, 2011
    Posts: 206

    T.L.
    Member
    from Colorado

    Why not just swap over Granada/Monarch/Versailles spindles and use the entire setup with rotors & calipers? I did that on an OT car years ago...
     
  19. Scarebird
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 843

    Scarebird
    Alliance Vendor
    from ABQ, USA

    Depending on year this requires tie rod and IIRC ball joint changes - and there are bump steer issues too.

     
  20. conmech
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 7

    conmech
    Member

    [​IMG]

    If you use the standard calipers that originally came with the Granada rotors, you get the upper pads. The whole idea of this thread is to show how to install the 2 15/16" diameter piston caliper(lower pad) , vise the 2 1/2". I'm seriously looking into this.
     
  21. damagedduck
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 2,341

    damagedduck
    Member
    from Greeley Co

    Good info louvers,i'm thinking of doing a disc swap on my 49 Hudson coupe,i have been looking at those brackets for some time 'cause the recipe that i have list pretty much the same parts list as yours, regardless which way i go-thanks for taking the time show us youe swap
     
  22. ZFORCE
    Joined: Jul 11, 2009
    Posts: 6

    ZFORCE
    Member
    from Tucson

    Marshall, actually the top pads in that photo are from the smaller GM metric calipers not Granada Calipers, but the idea is the same, increase pad surface area=better braking.
     
  23. Exactly - seen way too many Falcons and Mustangs with Granada Spindles that bump all over the road.
     
  24. I don't understand the problem with the Granada swap. I've done it on a '60 Falcon then swapped parts over to a '61 Comet. I used new '65 Mustang control arms; '65 Falcon Pitman arm, idler arm, center link, and strut rods; Granada spindles, brakes, and (IIRC) Granada tie rods. I didn't have any bump-steer problems.
     
  25. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 298

    Smokeybear
    Member

    I used the same brackets and calipers on my son's 67 mustang but I used Crown Vic rotors and reused the hub from the mustang. I just separated it from the old drum. Works beautifully.
     
    Bearcat_V8 likes this.
  26. JEM
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,041

    JEM
    Member

    couple thoughts:

    1) I'm leery of even using 1/4in cold-rolled in front, I certainly wouldn't trust 3/16in. It's not the force around the rotor axis that worries me, it's the lateral forces you may eventually get with a warped rotor, sticky caliper slides, uneven pad wear twisting the caliper on its slides, etc.

    I've seen all kinds of stuff in circle-track applications I wouldn't trust in 10K-mile-per-year street use, and personally I want everything that goes on my cars to be at least up to OE standards of durability.

    Once you've got dimensions if you can get it into Autocad, Solidworks, Inventor, whatever, it's pretty cheap to have 3/8in plate CNC waterjet or plasma-cut especially if you had 5-10 guys who wanted to do this.

    2) Remember, piston area/hydraulic force and fluid flow requirements change as a function of piston AREA, so the 2.5in GM piston is approx 8%% smaller than the Ford 2.6in Granada caliper piston but the 2.94in GM piston is almost 40% BIGGER. Choice of caliper piston diameter needs to be balanced against MC bore and rear brake cylinder or piston bore.

    BTW, not HAMBable really but I sent a note to Rare Parts a while back about the prospect of doing some long-stud balljoints for bumpsteer compensation when using Granada or '70-up Mustang spindles (there's the Baer kit but I've also always been touchy about rod ends on road cars) on the early cars (in my case a '65 Mustang).

    I haven't taken it any further yet but I'd be interested (and I'm sure they would be too) in hearing whether there might be a market for such a thing...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  27. Jeem
    Joined: Sep 12, 2002
    Posts: 5,885

    Jeem
    Alliance Vendor

    Cool tech. Good job.
     
  28. Harms Way
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 6,847

    Harms Way
    Member

    x-2 !
     
  29. As compared to a 65/66 spindle, the Granada spindle moves the tie rod mounting holes:
    "UP" ~ .55"
    "IN" ~ .40" (toward the center of the car)
    "Forward" ~ .45" (closer to the center of the wheel)
    this in turn changes the relationship of the tie rod, which adds bump steer. How much it is noticed depends on a couple of factors. Tire sizes, amount lowered if any, stiffness of springs, size of anti roll bars, and sensitivity of the driver.
    Stiff cars with big anti roll bars feel the effect less. Soft cars feel it more. Skinny tires feel it less, fat sticky tires feel it more.
    If you take the time to measure the degree of bump steer you will find that it increases over stock (which has some to begin with, especially at full droop)
     
  30. old and in the way
    Joined: Apr 23, 2012
    Posts: 2

    old and in the way
    Member

    Speedway has the brackeet for $9.99 each , the lines and adapter fitings + shiping. Tank you very much I am currently doinfg it on a 1965 Ranchero, the a 1965 Mustang fastback as so as I see the results Thanks again.

    My bloods FORD Blue
     

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