Last year 4ever4 did an excellent post on installing hydraulic brakes on his Model A http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124112 RichardD pm'd me about the spindles and brakes on my rpu, but since I saw it was Tech Week I thought I would answer him here. Hopefully this helps someone else out too. My project was to put 41 Lincoln backing plates on 32-34 spindles, which is essentially the same as putting 39-48 Ford brakes on a Model A. As shown here, the holes don't line up... This is usually "fixed" by slotting the holes in the backing plate or welding up the holes and redrilling them as shown from the post above. For one, I did not want to slot or weld and redrill near mint Lincoln backing plates. Secondly, I had the same reservation as Roothawg. I know the conversion has been done this way on 100's of cars, but I wanted to find another way. After a little measuring, I found that a 42-48 "square" spindle measure about 1/4" larger than the 32-34 spindle all the way around. I took the 32-34 spindle, welded up the original backing plate holes, then wrapped a piece of 1/4" square bar around, v'd it and welded it front and back. Unfortunately I didn't take any in process pics, but here is a before and after... You can see the larger bolt pattern...just like a 37-48 spindle. Here it is all bolted up with the Lincoln brakes. And you may ask yourself why I just didn't use a pair of later spindles? Here is the answer... ...the integral forged upper steering arm. I just dig the look. There you have it. Neal
Darn clever conversion! Just for clarification to those who don't know. There is a centering ring in the conventional conversion kits that centers the hydraulic backing plate hole on the spindle flange of the 28-36 spindles. And, of course, this conversion does require the bearing spacers for the stub axles.
I just actually slapped myself in the head after reading this.. brilliant. gotta pair of 34 spindles that now have new purpose in life. thankyou.
Neil, your chassis is so cool. I really wish you would post a shitload of pics of all the neat little stuff you've done, while explaining what parts you used and how they were modified..and I do mean every square inch of your chassis. I've learned alot from what you've already shown us, especiallly about using '32 spindles with a '32 axle. I seem to recall Dick Spadaro talking about how much better a car steered when it used its original parts. We want more!
That looks cool! I really wanted to do that but I was afraid of not having a bearing for the spindle to ride on. It rains alot here so I figured I would be greasing it all the time. Using lever shocks would take that to a whole new level with all that cool early steering stuff.
...the integral forged upper steering arm. I just dig the look. Me too!!! You have the "eye", the talent and the execution! Great stuff. I'm assuming you used the bearing spacer kit to use the Lincoln drums on the Deuce spindle just like you do with a hydraulic Ford drum?
Sometimes it's the little subtle things that smack ya right between the eyes like a 8 pound sledge hammer. Very cool piece o' tech.
I don't mean to hijack your post, but why does everyone want to use the 48ish juice brakes over the later self-energizing brakes? Is it the look? I'm using 55 Ford truck brakes on 37-41 spindles because they are juice and self energizing and it won't be hard to make them self adjusting. Also, all of the hardware can be bought just about anywhere. Just wondering.
Great post Neal......about welding on the spindles, I've read not to do it (safety concerns, etc.).....however I have some round back spindles that were on a '32 axle. The steering arm was cut off the '32 spindle and welded to the round back spindle. Done a long time ago to get hyd brakes on the '32. I know it's a little different than what you welded, more pressure/force at the arm... Thoughts??? .....I like the F-1 stuff for the same reasons you stated.......I used '50 F-1 spindles and brakes, although the driver's side spindle is UGLY with it's bolt on arm.....next time I'll just use the brakes.....
This he? I had to go read with 3rd graders in my son's class... Anyway, thanks for the kind words. To answer a few questions. First, I think the use of 48 and earlier brakes is all about the look for those of us that are trying to build a period or era specific hot rod. Myke's statement about going to lever shocks is also about the look. I have been studying post war cars and it seems that by about 1947 chrome tube shocks on the front were pretty common. That's the era of build I am shooting for, so they were a must have. And about welding on spindles...it has been done for years. Pat Ganahl's roadster has a steering arm welded to a 40 spindle...done years ago. I recently saw Jim Jacobs 34 Fordor and Pete Eastwood's T truck both have welded upper steering arms. I see nothing wrong if it was done right. If in doubt, have it magnafluxed. Neal
Thanks Neal......that's what I was thinking, since the welding on the arm I have 'appears' to be very well done. But I'll have it mag'd before using it.
I think the small pattern Lincoln backing plates are earlier than 1946...Lincoln did keep the '32-36 type pattern later than Ford, into the hydraulic period, but not that late. They had early pattern front, big pattern rears like '32-6 Fords. The '46-8 ones are the deep-dish model that requires a spacer between spindle and plate to bring it to right depth for Ford. I sent a vast pile of Lincoln brake parts cataloging to some guy in Texas who was going to publish the definitive article on Lincoln brakes...but nothing appeared. Guess I could drag out the books again.
Now that's making sense. I think it is '39 Lincoln backing plates that bolt right onto 32-36 spindles. Funny that they kept the smaller spindle later than Ford, but went to 5 on 5-1/2 bolt pattern a year earlier. Neal
Great post Neal. I like the idea. As the forces are all sort of in line with the flange, the welding job is (I guess) relatively lightly stressed. I also welded a steering arm on many years ago too, you have to have good confidence in your welding. As far as I know it hasn't fell off yet. Mart.
Neal, great stuff. I was about to ask how you got the Lincoln drums to work with those spindles. From the front your wide fives look like Lincolns with the grooves. I believe the 42-48 backing plates do have the same pattern as the earlier Lincolns. The later fronts have the recess and require spacers to use Ford spindles. Thanks for posting.
Looks great! I've heard that a good centering ring to use to align the spindle to the backing plate is a piston ring. Are there any tips like that for use as a bearing spacer. Another tip for using 2 1/4 inch wishbones on an axle that has a spring perch boss of 2 inch is to use a 28-34 mechanical brake shoe roller. One of those little pieces of "junk" that most hot rodders just throw away.
They buy i got them from said 42-48. They are deep dish ones and have a 2 1/4 wide lining. I used F1 brake cyl. I had to machine the top of the king pin (32-34) that is all. And a bearing spacer. Work perfect . even after a few speep hills and if i do a panic stop at 100mph Michael
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/3286,349_Hydraulic-Brake-Adapter-Rings.html?itemNo=model%20a%20brake I have a centering ring kit from Speedway, I was going to use it to mount my '40 brakes to some A spindles, but I have seen the light and got some '32-'34 spindles. I guess the same kit will work for my application, just need to weld up some extra steel and re-drill?
Working on a weld on ring for the early Fords spindles, to accept juice brakes. I hope to have them available this spring. Laser cut.
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