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Technical T5 upgrade

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Phil P, Jan 27, 2024.

  1. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 496

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've pulled my T5 out of my model A to address the grinding going into 4th. I'm going to go ahead and replace the synchronizers and bearings when it's apart. It's the non world class out of an S10 so first gear is pretty much useless but it starts fine in second gear behind my mild 283. I would like to upgrade to the 2.95 gear set if I can at a reasonable price, does anyone know what parts I'd need and who has them? I've gone through the T5 Tread and no one seems to go this route.

    Phil
     
  2. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 1,865

    Ziggster
    Member

    Deuces likes this.
  3. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 496

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for the tips, I've looked at there sites but they don't seem to have a lot of nwc parts. I will have to contact them and see if they have more parts that aren’t listed on line.

    Phil
     
  4. Try Allstate Gear inc in San Antonio,Texas,
    They were good to deal with and had a lot of gear.
     
    winduptoy likes this.

  5. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,238

    nobby
    Member

    Its because EVEN if they made a 2.95 non world class transmission and the gears and cluster shaft existed/exists.
    t5 2.95 gear ratios
    1st gear tooth count 32
    2nd 33
    3rd 30
    4th 1.1
    5th
    with the 070 clustershaft
    and lets not forget the 24 toothe firstmotion shaft that would have a brass doofer.

    what would be the point of putting it into production?
    as you couldn't turn the first gear if the engine fitted to it was a diesel
    or a 90 hp 4 banger.

    I think it may wheel be worth noting that, the upgrade to bearings under the gears
    for the world class designation ALSO co insides with removing the brass sychromisers and replacing them with carbon paper - THIS is why what you have in your gearbox at the moment is gear-oil heavy opacity oil, and in the wc they use dextron-2 or automatic gearbox fluid which is much less viscous, anyways, I am only moaning as i just swapped the giblets on a gearbox and forgot this, the gearbox I used the giblets from had the wrong oil in it - gear oil and not light weight atf, what has happened is the whole gear train and the paper whatsnames has become sticky and its fooked!
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  6. Find a NWC T5 out of an 8cyl Camaro/Firebird and use your S10 tail shaft housing etc.
     
    Just.dale and winduptoy like this.
  7. chicken
    Joined: Aug 15, 2004
    Posts: 438

    chicken
    Member
    from Kansas

    ^^^^^^This is correct!^^^^^^It'll have the 2.95 gearset you want, and will work well.
     
    Unkl Ian and winduptoy like this.
  8. Flatrod17
    Joined: Apr 25, 2017
    Posts: 480

    Flatrod17
    Member

    I have bought parts from MDL, (Modern Drive Line). The guy there seemed to know his stuff. Sold me what I needed to put the Ford 2.95 gears in a GM case.
     
  9. the oil soup
    Joined: May 19, 2013
    Posts: 283

    the oil soup
    Member
    from Tucson,AZ

    You might try Earl Johnson in Pflugerville, TX, he knows T5s.
     
  10. In_The_Pink
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 569

    In_The_Pink
    Member

    I would third this. ^ The S-10 style tailhousing and shifter assembly are becoming the difficult and more expensive parts to find and buy, so finding a good F-body T5 will put you in good shape. Even a non-WC version would be fine if you are sensible with your right foot.

    Here's a helpful chart which you can scroll through and see which ratios were available: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm
     
  11. A 2 B
    Joined: Dec 2, 2015
    Posts: 509

    A 2 B
    Member
    from SW Ontario

    T5 Service manual I had saved. WC & STD. Its a PDF file that won't upload here but I will email it to anyone interested. Just PM me with an email address.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
  12. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 496

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    I agree this would be the easiest route, but this would mean buying another used transmission with the risk involved plus the cost and shipping. I am keeping an eye out locally but of course nwc t5s are getting a little thin on the ground.

    Phil
     
  13. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,238

    nobby
    Member

    I am just going to add
    WOW at the prices of nv3500's now for gm
    or gm getrag 290 's
    then go on to say
    i bet the getrag 5 speeds from
    1998 and upwards of a series - lets call them
    the 5 speed 200 series
    i bet the giblets of ALL 5 speed getrag gearboxes of that era
    run identical internals
    i.e. you could quite easily fit say, a bmw 3 series getrag 200 series 5 speed box tail onto a
    gm getrag 200 series 5 speed case.
    I bet you could fit a gm getrag 200 series main case to a 3.0 s type jaguar rwd tail
    and end up with a really short transmission.
    which is nice
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,415

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think that I have one. I will go check.
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,415

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah, I have one but I can only see the ends.

    It will take me a bit to get the mountain of stuff off of it to read the tag.

    It is definitely NWC and F-body (Camaro/Firebird), but I would need to check the gear set.

    GM/Borg Warner made some odd combinations in the NWC years.
     
  16. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 1,865

    Ziggster
    Member

    I did a quick check on FB Marketplace locally, and this guy near Montreal is selling rebuilt ones for CAN$1,250 with your old one as a core. If legit, not bad considering what folks are asking for used stuff. I figure l’ll have a grand into mine doing the rebuild myself.

    C614F60E-D611-44BA-80AE-966842032969.png
     
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,415

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, I am not sure what this thing is.

    It has the tail and output shaft of an F-body NWC T5 (shaft is turning the speedometer drive), and the clutch spline count.

    The tag ends in 192, which says V6 S10, somehow with neither the 4.03:1 gear set, nor the 3.76:1 gear set, but a 3.97 gear set.

    As I often mention, GM and Borg Warner made some odd combinations. I'm not sure how this one exists. I kinda want to open it, and count teeth.
     
    Beanscoot likes this.
  18. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 3,019

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    @Phil P

    You are better off buying a complete V8 Camaro T5 and swapping over the whole Gearset
    Because the S10 tail housing has the speedo drive in a different position . You need the mainshaft to match the tail housing.

    Then swap all the S10 gears back into the Camaro T5 and sell it to recover costs
     
  19. I grabbed an S10 T5 from the local pick-n-pull wrecking yard, then a short time later found a Camaro V8 T5 in the same yard. Each trans was $150 (close to 10 years ago). I swapped the tail housings and ran a GPS speedo. Worked great. There are apparently ways to reposition the speedo drive gear on the Camaro tail shaft to line up with the S10 housing hole but I couldn't be bothered. I also ran a late 70's Z28 bell housing and 11" clutch. Worked great other than I almost never used 5th due to having a 2.56 rear gear. I swapped it back to auto (it was a daily and I was tired of "rowing") and sold the trans from $300 (maybe 8 years ago). I can't believe the prices of used transmissions now.

    If I wanted a standard 5 or 6 speed, I'd go aftermarket at this point (I get that you already have a trans and simply want to swap internals, not buy new aftermarket).
     
    Phil P likes this.
  20. Ziggster
    Joined: Aug 27, 2018
    Posts: 1,865

    Ziggster
    Member

    I checked Kenny-U-Pull across Canada, and they only had two Camaros, and both were automatics. Finding a T5 is not as easy as it once was. They’re out there for sure, but it takes some digging and time.
     
  21. 31 Coupe
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 394

    31 Coupe
    Member

    Here in Australia, Ford used a 3.25 WC T5 in their 1993> 6 cylinder (~250HP) Falcons.
    They have a shorter input shaft (5/8") which helps move the transmission forwards a little and in conjunction with a T10 extension housing it suits most hot rod shifter positions well.
    Mine is behind an 8BA flathead so I fabricated a steel bellhousing to adapt it and then machined the 8BA flywheel to take the Falcon 10" diaphragm pressure plate.
     
    Beanscoot likes this.
  22. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 3,019

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    I've done the speedo gear reposition on a Camaro T5 when adding a Holden /Ford tailhousing for a RHD situation.
    I had to grind a small flat spot and drill a hole to locate the clip. Then wrapped the tailshaft with shim aluminium [using loctite]

    Some people treat manual transmissions like some sort of a "Black Art"

    If I had 2 transmissions, I would prefer to do the complete gearset swap [and new bearings, synchros, small parts in the trans I wanted to keep]
    Then I would patch together the other trans using the best leftover bearings, synchros, small parts from both boxes

    It is only my labour

    @Phil P S10 T5's with the granny 1st can be made to work OK. They need a 2.78:1 rear end ratio
    This would have the same overall 1st gear ratio [11.20:1] as a 2.95 1st with a 3.79:1 rear end. [11.18:1]

    The S10 ratio "drop" from 4th to 5th is 0.86 so a 2.78 would have an overall ratio of 2.39
    The Camaro ratio "drop" from 4th to 5th is 0.63 so a 3.79 would have an overall ratio of 2.38

    I would personally rather have the ratios wider between 1st and 2nd and getting them stacked closer together between 4th and 5th.
    With the correct rear end ratio the S10 ratios are a better choice.
     
    BigRRR and Phil P like this.

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