T5 tailshaft swap for dummies, with pictures.

I'd like to add a little to this great informative T-5 thread. I ran into somethings recently which might make it easier for others also.

One of my T-5's is a 89 S-10 which is the electric speedo version. And I needed the mechanical. So I plugged the hole and was running with no speedo.

I pulled the trans because OD failed, and figured this is a good time to change the tail and put an earlier mech speedo in.

OD failed because the snap ring holding the driven gear on the mainshaft came out of the groove and the gear walked back and lost tooth contact with the drive gear. No damage other than the groove looked a little shitty and the snap ring was buggered a little. Turns out there is another groove about 1/2 rearward that is not used. Made a spacer out of the old speedo gear (sintered iron), cut off the teeth and made it the right lenght to fill the space between the two grooves (simple lath job), reassembled, now it has two snap rings holding the gear on the shaft. Works well, it's running and driving.

After assembling, I felt that the input shaft was kinda loose, took of the front retainer and there was NO shim for the nose bearing. Thought that this ain't right, seeing as it's a roller bearing and should have no clearance or a little preload. Measured and found .032 gap. Made a shim .032. Assembled. Nice. I think someone had this trans apart and lost the shim. I recently found out in a manual that the front bearing should have from 0 to a .0003 (that's 3 tenths of a thousanth) interfearance. So if your input shaft is floppy, take care of it while it's out.

Now to the Speedo drive, I got another tail from an older trans. and was ready to do the shim under the drive gear thing. I picked up a new drive gear, driven gear, clip and bullet from http://www.transmissioncenter.net/
after figuring what I needed ratio wise from the Bowling and Grippo site, http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html Turns out the drive gear for the mainshaft fit purfect on the newer shaft and was even in the right location so no mods were necessary, A drop in conversion.

Happy Motoring

Frank

 

Alright time for an update. After going out to sea for a while I finaly got around to installing this beast. I made a mistake when I assembled it and in the post. When i was talking about the oil flinger and the steel washer for directing flow (see the first page with the pictures) I was wrong when I said that washer is for directing flow. That washer is the rear bearing race for the thrust bearing on the back of the overdrive cluster on the NWC unit. That bearing isn't on the WC unit and there isn't enough room for that race behind it when you install the tailshaft. I'm not entirely sure if I did things right but I omitted the washer and I'm assuming that since there was no bearing there on the WC unit that it doesn't require one to be in that position.

Also for a clutch and shifter. I used a v6 camaro clutch disc (mine is a v6 camaro trans) and put it behind the pressure plate from the original 10" clutch that was on the truck. It works fine, however if you have an astrovan that requires an 11" disc you can't do this and will need to get in touch with dial a clutch or someone like that. As for the shifter I modified the s10 shifter. It already had a slight forward bend to it so I just heated it with a torch and exploited that exsisting bend until it was where I wanted it then I cut off the top of it and welded a piece of the shifter from the 4speed toploader that came out of the truck. And that's it folks, you too can have overdrive.

Zor

 

Zor, thanks a lot for this great post i recently picked up a WC nit for my 51 ford to go behind my 5.0l the trans is ot of a mustang do yo happen to know if this swap will work with a mustang trans? or do yo know if the tail shafts are the same? thanks again

 

nice post with pics.
thanks
shoulda saved it for tech week

 

Don't worry about it - you did it right!

Yes, you can swap the S10 tailshaft onto a Mustang T5.

 

Good I was worried. And thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Zor

 

Do you have to change the main shaft and OD gears, or is there a combo of pieces that can be used to make it work as is?

 

Whoops - I used improper terminology. When I said "tailshaft", I meant "tailhousing". You cannot swap the actual tailshaft/output shaft between WC and NWC...

 

Okay, you had me wonderin' there.

 

Ruff:
Wondering if you will sell the tail housing with the mechanical speedo?
pjplymouth in warm, green Michigan
12/16/08

 

When I bought a complete unit from a rebuilder, I was told I had a WC camaro unit with an s-10 tailhousing set up for a mechanical speedometer. After posting some pictures over on inliners, I was told that they gave me the wrong tailhousing. Here is a picture of it:







Can someone confirm this for me before I call up the builder to complain?

 

That the 'teeth' in the speedo 'drive' hole on the 2nd to last pic?

If nothing else, it's got the wrong cog in ther if it is (looks like a tone ring to me).

I know people that have made the gear work on those though.

 

So after doing some more searching around, it turns out that I won't be able to use this tailhousing.

The seller/and or builder ripped me off! The tailhousing is the electronic unit. The hole is pointed directly at the speedo gear.

I tried calling both the seller and builder and of course, got no answer. Which sucks... I can't just drive over there, they're from Texas. So I don't know what to do now.

I am now doubting that I even got a WC tranny. Here's why:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3396754&postcount=30

I am sorry for double posting some of this information on two separate thread. I'm just a little pissed off right now.

 

That appears to be a WC unit based on the countershaft bearing plug - it appears to be two concentric circles vs a freeze plug found on NWC units.

 

Yeah, figure it's a WC box, but on the speed sensor at the back, is that the tone ring (reluctor, signal generator, toothy whatchamacallit) for an electric speed sensor? Or is it the mount for a speedo drive gear?

It's been too long (and to many different gearboxes) ago since I had mine apart. Is the speedo gear splined onto these, or is it that goofy ball bearing drive? I don't recall.

 

I just picked up a WC to replace my recently thrashed NWC. The NWC has a mech speed and the WC is elec. Since I need to keep the mech speedo, is the swapping of the tailshaft housings between these two as easy or easier then everything you've described here?

 

What does it take to swap tail shafts from two NWC T-5's for the sake of using a mechanical speed vs and elec? Does this require a total disassembly? Should this be done by a professional?

 

Yes and maybe.

As in yes you have to more or less fully disassemble the trans to swap the shaft.

Maybe, you might take it to a professional, if you're not confident in your abilities.

As others have said these aren't that complex of a trans.

 

If it's an S10 unit, you will need to swap the tailhousing to go from electric to mechanical. If its a camaro, just the sender, as they are both gear driven.

Don't ask me why the dumbasses couldn't just make them all the same...


Here's the basic deal everybody, if the speedo hole points directly at the tailshaft, IT FOR ELECTRIC ONLY and you will need a different tailhousing to run mechanical.

Or spend $319 on a converter box...

 

It would require a total teardown to replace a tailshaft. You will need a rebuild manual, a press, bearing pullers, and a heavy duty snap ring pliers...

 

I got a electric speedo t5 s10 tail I'll swap for the mechanical speedo version

 

The oil flinger in the s10 tailshaft (wc) will not fit into the nwc t5 camaro tranny that I am trying to install it on.They are two different designs.What do I do now.Do I have to get a NWC s10 tailshaft and oil finger?

 

I ran into the same problem. Ended up getting a NWC S10 tailhousing. There may be another option, but I didn't pursue it.

Bob

 

I have one of the '93 up WC S10 T5 trans with the Ford mounting pattern and 1 1/8" 26 spline input shaft. Anybody adapted one of those to a "standard" pattern Chevy bellhousing?

Bob

 

Hey, great post - thanks.

Question - I've got a T-5 in my Sunbeam Tiger. I want to move the shifter quite a bit forward, looks like the S-10 tailpiece location would be perfect. Will the S-10 tailpiece bolt on? I hear that some work (WC) and some don't?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam

 

If you've got a WC T5, both WC and NWC tailshaft housings will work. If it's a NWC T5, you need a NWC tailshaft housing.

Bob

 

That T5 looks like it might be out of a T-bird or Cougar based on the shifter location...if so, rare beast.

 

Thanks to Zor and Ernie for the info. I am in the process of the tail swap and have one question regarding the washer, bearing and race found on the NWC vs. the WC.

I was ready to install the S10 tail onto my Camaro WC box and saw the difference on the cluster with the oil flinger. I read further into the chain after the original pictures and read the update saying to disgard the bearing and the race from the NWC S10 housing. Is this correct? The machined oil passages look different in the WC tail as opposed to the NWC S10 tail. I have onclosed the 2 pictures. The NWC on the right shows the large washer at the end of the cluster where the flat bearing and race go in the NWC. The second picture shows the WC cluster with no provision for the bearing and race. Is it OK th use the S10 NWC case on the WC cluster without this bearing and race? Sorry for the long winded question. Thanks, Ray

 

WOW What a thread this is just what I needed

 

First of all, I'd like to thank Ernie, Zor, and Snarl for all the helpful info in this thread (and all the other T5 threads)! I have a potential deal pending right now and have been researching since last night, but am still a bit unclear about something. Hopefully, you all can help me out?

I may be purchasing a WC T5 from a '91 V8 Camaro. I suspect it has an electronic speedo, but will need to confirm. The deal would come with an early S10 tailhousing with mechanical speedo and everything needed to convert the WC trans.

My concern is with the electronic speedo. If I am understanding things correctly, the output shaft of the WC trans would need to be replaced (requiring disassembly and a new shaft) in order to work with a mechanical speedo. Is this accurate or can the WC output shaft be modified to work with the cable driven speedo? I'm concerned that I may be better off waiting for a WC trans with a mechanical speedo and pass on this otherwise good deal.


Any thoughts/suggestions would be much appreciated!
Tommy