T5 tailshaft swap for dummies, with pictures.

That's too thick for the carbon-fiber blocker rings...you'll eventually run into synchro problems.That would work well in a NWC, but not a WC.

 

Hey Ernie, are wc t-5's THAT much better than nwc??

Sam.

 

Sam,

They are a marked improvement. Ballpark torque rating differences between WC/NWC is on the order of 100lb/ft (with differences between specific models) The key differences are bearings (instead of bushings) for the gears, and the two-piece, carbon-fibre blocker rings on the synchros.

The switch to ATF for WC was for the synchros, but most OEMs also began recommending ATF for NWC too - this was largely for shift feel.

 

can you take a 4x4 t5 that has the transfer case hanging off of it and swap tailhousings? to make it normal?

 

Not without replacing the output shaft of the trans, which requires disassembly. If you're rebuilding anyway, it's no big deal, but it sucks to tear open a box just to swap guts around...better to start off with what you need.

 

I've never seen a GM T5 with anything other than ATF. Even my '83 S10 shop manual said ATF.

If you are looking to buy a used T5, check to see if it has gear lube or ATF in it. If gear lube, it's probably junk...

 

good to know thanks, i was only asking because i can get one for about 75 bucks and wouldnt mind learning how to tear it apart anyway so thats a definate maybe.

 

My 1983 Mustang Owner's Manual says to use Ford ESP-M2C83-C which is 80wt gear oil. Later manuals covering 83-87 say to use ATF. Ford went WC in '85.

Some shops recommend MTL - which varies by brand, but seems to be about 50wt (guess).

I use synthetic ATF in all of them regardless of WC/NWC...never any issues. I believe for NWC, the ATF has more to do with shift feel than wear...

 

Another way to hold the trans while removing the rear casting is bolted to boards and held input shaft facing down over the trash barrel. All the extra fluid goes in the barrel, and the three handed part is easy with only two hands. Plain old ATF can be used, but if a whine starts when you let off the gas in 2nd. or 3rd, then go with the expensive GM lube.

 

Great post! I'm up to the same thing now - mating a T5 to flattie in our roadster. Two more questions:
1. What to look for to convert tailshaft unit to elec. speedo. I got two NWC T5's and the one I will use is a mechanical speedo but I want to convert it over to the other tailshaft that is an elec. speedo? I got a Wings elec. speedo. Do they just bolt up? What about the speedo "pick up"?
2. Wondered for a long time now what to do with the boss that hangs down from the bottom of the T5 case where the two bracing (?) rods attached when it was in the S10? Do ya suppose we need to rig up some braces to this? This is the lowest part of the car now -- would like to saw it off. In all the T5 articles I've seen I didn't come away with an answer for this! We be on the road soon - I hope!
Any ideas are greatly appreciated..................
-Ruffdawg

 

ruffdawg,

To change to electric from mech on an S10 T5, you will need the correct tailhousing, reluctor, and VSS switch. The reluctor is a light press fit on the shaft, so you won't need to worry about the clip that holds on the plastic gear. Note that the S10 is a 40 pulse. Will that work out for your gauge? If not, you may need to swap out the gauge for a mech. version.
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/V8-chapters/V8-tpi-Speed-Sensors.pdf

Or you can swap the whole tranny for the right one. Electric versions are easier to find...

I posted this for doing the swap from electric to mech.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249746&highlight=snarl


Cut it off if you want to. I have a later one that doesn't even have it from the factory...

 

I'm not using it at all. This is going in a chevy C10 truck so it won't be the lowest part of the vehicle, but I don't see an real offense in cutting it off. The boss doesn't exist on an F body trans and the mount is the same (besides being rotated around a bit). If it were me and it WAS a clearance issue I'd lop it off.

 

is there anyway you can cut the Ford shift shaft down to the length of the S10 shift shaft and redrill the hole? can you see any other differences between the the 2 tails in the gear linkage box area? i think the Ford box is more rectangular and the S10 is more square. are those parts inside there interchangeable?

just wondering if its worth the trouble to swap tails or just buy a complete pre 86 S10 trans. i probably won't do any burnouts and what not.

Bryan

 

You probably could, but it's likely more trouble than it's worth.

Why pre-86? You get the crummy gear ratios in the earlier S10 trannys...read the tech.

 

Great tech thread...

 

just searching for ideas. i have a less than common engine for under the hood. i'm using a Ford 2.3 so the transmission that backs it is a ....

1352-162
Factory 87-88 Mustang 2.3 240ft\lbs
1st 3.97
2nd 2.34
3rd 1.46
4th 1.00
5th 0.79

upon second thought. maybe the 1st – 3.76 2nd – 2.18 3rd – 1.41 4th – 1.00 5th – 0.72 of the S10 will not go good with the Ford 2.3. i guess if i go the s10 complete trans route, i need to find the 4cyl or v6 variety. i thought about getting a WC T5 so eventually if i ever switch to a V8 the transmission will handle it.

 

Do not select S10 T5 based on engine. Select based on tag number. See the T5 Ultimate Tech post in the T5 Tech in my sig for a list of tag numbers for both the 4.03 & 3.76 gearsets out of the S10...

 

Is there some trick to getting the tailshaft back on? I removed mine just to check the guts of the tranny, Ford WC out of a mustang, and can't seem to get the tailshaft on all the way. It comes to within a 1/4" - 1/2" of the mating surface and then stops. It seems to be hitting the 5th gear shift rail. This rail fits into a bore in the tailshaft. I've wiggled and jiggled for an hour with no success. Anybody got some tricks for getting these things back on? Is it common to have trouble getting them back on?

 

You have to hold your mouth juuuust right!

Seriously, I've had 'em fight me for hours and then the same tranny go right on & off easily. Check the plastic oiling funnel in the end of the countershaft & be sure it's not hanging up. Also, some countershafts have a washer that rides on top of some needle bearings that can be a bear to get back aligned.

Doing it all vertically, input shaft down, makes it somewhat easier - also be sure your output shaft bearing retainer is tapped all the way home in the main case.

 

Yes, do it vertically. exactly right. I used a spare bellhousing on some 4x4s to elevate it a little. Just put it on the floor mounting surface face up and drop the tailhousing on there.

 

Got it!!

 

Hi, i need to go 1 level further: have a Mustang WC T5, need to transplant the Jeep 4x4 adaptor & shaft. Must i have WC parts for this?
Many thanks!

 

Pretty sure it can't be done. Jeep is NWC and Mustang is WC - can't swap the internals. You need the Jeep output shaft which won't work with the Mustang guts...

 

You know, I was thinking about this the other day, and about how a guy could build a business around this whole concept. With 4 or 5 for parts, and 4 or 5 on the shelf, a guy could probably offer a trade-in service - customers could pretty much order the transmission they wanted, at whatever gear ratio they wanted, and it would be on the shelf. Their old box could be used for parts.

This would be extremely attractive and do-able if one sold the service at $130, plus parts & labor.

The $130 would get you an empty box overnighted to your house with all the packing materials and a return shipping label inside. It would also cover said return shipping, and shipping the final transmission back to them. In addition, it would cover a consultation and/or diagnostic.

It would work like this.

Via an online store, maybe even an eBay store, a customer that wants this service buys it for $130. Immediately, a list of orders is compiled and sent to UPS-owned fulfillment house (which you've struck a deal with).

UPS sends the box, packing materials, and return shipping label to the customer.

The customer gets it, puts their transmission into the box, puts the return shipping label on it, and calls UPS to come get the package.

The package arrives at your business, you open it, and check it out. You find out what additional stuff it'll need for the swap, and call the customer. You tell 'em it's $X for labor (probably a standard fee) plus $X for parts to do the tailshaft swap. If they agree, charge their same credit card and do the work, then box it up and send it back (no additional shipping was charged, as it's all covered by the initial $130).

The customer gets it and is happy.

I've used this many times over, and it's a sound business model. The prices are a little off (not sure of real prices), but I thought it was worth sharing.

Somebody should totally do this! It would be a World-exclusive business - no one else would do what you do. And being the source, many people would turn to you!

Just a thought...

 

Thanx for the speedy reply.
In looking at the manual i thought i saw a WC version of the Jeep, did i read it wrong?
As my rod is going to use a 'glass Bantam body & Ford torque tube, i'd really like that shorty adaptor!!

 

I'm not aware of any Jeep WC units ever being made.

 

I may be a bit hard-headed, too! (i'll take that as a thing to be proud of)
I guess i'll go forward w/ the Jeep xfer adaptor +WCT5'Z' frankenstein as a parent to a torque-ball adaptation.
i'll let y'all know the progress.

 

Well, anything's possible given enough time and money, but you're trying to mix-n-match things that don't go together...

 

anyone have o good parts source for these? i just picked one up tonight and need some gears.

 

Just reviewing older T5 stuff and wanted to clear something up in this excellent post.

What you're calling a bushing is actually the needle bearing race - use it if you have needle bearings. You can discard this if you don't have the bearings. This could cause problems if you try to put a WC tailshaft on a NWC tranny (which normally nobody does...) due to machining...

Not necessary at all...