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Technical T5 Clutch adjustment, HELP will not go in gear

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 33FDPU, May 22, 2014.

  1. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    Please help if you can.
    1933 Ford Pickup with a 53 flathead and a Speedway adapter and T 5 transmission

    When I bought the truck it had a T5 in it and it would go into gear just fine but the throw out was spinning the hole time.
    We pulled the tranny, replaced it and the bearing and the master cylinder and slave.

    If I get the throw out bearing NOT spinning when clutch is out it will not go into gear. If the put a longer push rod on the slave it will go in but the bearing spins all the time.

    I have played with the adjustment rod on the master and have it as long as it will go. the slaves piston comes right to the end of the housing ( @ 1/8" from the edge)
    We lengthend the pivot ball screw but we are not sure it is out far enough or in to far.

    ANY IDEA'S what I am doing wrong? PLEASE assist.
     
  2. JackdaRabbit
    Joined: Jul 15, 2008
    Posts: 469

    JackdaRabbit
    Member
    from WNC

    Do I understand you replaced the TO bearing, master, slave AND trans.? You have a whole new set of variables. Could it be slave, master incompatibility between them or TO bearing. Does it used the long or short bearing? T5's have differences too. Find what the Speedway kit is made to work with.
     
  3. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    Yes, it is all new. We took extra care to get it all correct. Speedway supplied the housing and bearing. Summit and wilwood helped with the master and slave. I can only hope it is correct.
    Long or short bearing? first we have heard of that.
    I have to believe it is the pivot ball. I read that it needs to be at 3 -7 degrees forward/toward the block. I can't seem to get that angle. I did get it to work for a couple days. I backed the pivot all the way in to the housing, but in 2 or 3 days is would not go in gear and I had to adjust it at the master cylinder linkage.
    I am willing to pay now, just have no idea to take it to in the Youngstown Ohio area.
     
  4. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 606

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Here's the problem as I see it: you don't have enough travel in the slave cylinder. In order to fix this you have two options.
    First option is shorten the length of the clutch fork arm (the part that sticks out of the trans). If this were a manual system, this would make for a much stiffer clutch feel, but since it is hydraulic, it would barely be noticeable, if at all.
    Second option: get a slave cylinder with a longer travel.

    Sounds simple, but obviously carrying it out will take a weekend or two depending on your chosen method.

    Mike
     
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  5. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 863

    Barrelnose pickup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sounds like the ratio of clutch fork to slave is incorrect.As said above your pivot point on your fork would need to be moved.It sounds like going back to basics and checking your that your master and slave cylinders are balanced and correct for your fork travel.It would appear you need more travel from your slave cylinder which will be easier than playing with your fork and ending up with a hard pedal.
    IMHO
     
  6. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,564

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Any of the hydraulic clutch set ups that I have seen the releace bearing is always riding on the pressure plate.
     
  7. JackdaRabbit
    Joined: Jul 15, 2008
    Posts: 469

    JackdaRabbit
    Member
    from WNC

    Funny, I grew up hearing not to leave your foot resting on the clutch pedal because it caused premature wear on the bearing that's not meant for continuous duty.

    To the OP: when you say it loses adjustment after a few days it makes me think you have internal leakage in the master or the slave. Have someone hold the pedal down (or put a concrete block on it) and study the slave to see if it holds the position. Use a ruler or caliper because the movement might be slow.
     
  8. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    When I changed to a T-5 I had the same problem with a resurfaced flywheel and a new disc. I thought it was a linkage problem too. It turned out that the disc had frozen to the flywheel and even though the pressure plate was working. The disc was still stuck. I started it in gear with the clutch out and with my foot firmly holding the brake. The disc broke loose and it was fine after that. I did it in the winter with the door closed. I was afraid it would drive through the door. It didn't and all is well. It had me scratching my head for a while.
    As far as the bearing riding on the fingers...it shouldn't that is what we call toe play.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  9. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    My take on this is that you have the wrong ratio clutch throw arm on the bell housing what are you using for a clutch throw arm on the bellhousing?
     
  10. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    I also thought I needed more push from the slave, but it is to the end of the cylinder. I can put a longer arm in it but then the TO rides on the PP
    the clutch arm looks like a standard chevy arm. no extra bends or alterations that I can see.

    when I got the truck the TO bearing was touching and it whined until you put pressure on it. I don't want to burn out another one

    do you think the pivot point should be OUT ( toward the MOTOR) or closer to the tranny?
     
  11. gasmanm01
    Joined: Nov 24, 2009
    Posts: 571

    gasmanm01
    Member

    I went thru the same thing on my f-1truck. The slave and master cyl have to be the same bore. You need aprox 8 to 1 ratio. There is a short bearing for cars and a long bearing for trucks . Very few people know you can gat throw out bearings in other lengths. The one I used is in between the short and long .
    Part number is g-1625-c, national wheel end components. It is almost impossible to keep it from not spinning even with 3/16 clearance they recommend . This is a heavier built bearing tha others I have tried. Over 12000 miles and no problems


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  12. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    your saying you have 12k on a TO bearing and it spins all the time....and doesn't make any noise?
     
  13. BurnoutNova
    Joined: Mar 30, 2011
    Posts: 135

    BurnoutNova
    Member
    from USA

    I think there is a difference between the bearing spinning all the time and having alot of load on it, such as your foot resting on the pedal all the time.
     
  14. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,564

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I think a release bearing designed for a hydraulic clutch setup is made different and can stand turning all the time. It is turning but does not have a load on it.
     
  15. gasmanm01
    Joined: Nov 24, 2009
    Posts: 571

    gasmanm01
    Member

    It does not spin all the time butat time es it does. We fabbed everything up on the lift and finally got it to work. The biggest thing I learned is the pedal ratio. If it does not push enough fluid, it will not shift. If to much, it will shove the piston out of the slave cyl. The shop that helped me fine tune it has done a huge amount of these in tractors, big trucks, mud trucks dirt cars and drag cars. He showed me on other cars that you cant always get clearance. I have drove to austin in it, numorous trips to fla., bowling green , all over. No problems










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  16. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    well after few hours of laying on my back, it still isn't right.
    I extended the pivot bolt to as far as I can ( best I can tell with it all in the truck) I bleed the system again. and played with the linkage on the peddle and master cylinder. it seemed to help and it goes in gear but the TO bearing is riding on the fingers and is squealing when you have your foot off the clutch at idea and very low rpm. if you ride it , it will not squeal
    I gave up and told my dad to just drive it. hopefully I met someone who has a similar set up it.
    thanks to all for the suggestions and comments.
     
  17. gasmanm01
    Joined: Nov 24, 2009
    Posts: 571

    gasmanm01
    Member

    Another thing I forgot to mention, flex in your brackets. A small amount will not affect it , but if your brackets are moving enough that you cansee theflex while someone mashes rhe pedal, it will work a few times and then will not go in gear any more. Also I busted a clutch disc after about 300 miles because of this. After 0gusseting and bracing, stopped most of the movement, no more problems

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  18. 54fierro
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 493

    54fierro
    Member
    from san diego

    Good call. I had the same issue with my father in laws chevy truck. I would bleed it and get it working but would get a call the next day that there was no pedal. Obviously a more severe internal leak than what you have.
    Replacing the defective clutch master did the trick. By the way, it was always a pain to bleed. I've replaced that master about 3 times in the last 10 years or so for him. It sucked bleeding it every time. I would have to manually pump the air out at the slave end.
     
  19. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,231

    nexxussian
    Member

    My old S10 4X had the same squeal, until you put your foot on the pedal.

    I put almost 60K Mi on it like that.

    Best of luck, that has to be annoying.

    I've heard of the 3 different height bearings for these, any clutch shop in the area should know what you are looking for.
     
  20. mayhughdi
    Joined: May 23, 2014
    Posts: 3

    mayhughdi

    it would barely be noticeable, if at all.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    it's noticeable at least to me, my dad cant hear so he is happy. LOL.
    I did notice the bracket on the slave flexed when it was depressed. it is 1/4 angle iron, custom made and bolts to the bell housing. I think I will take it off and put a brace on it.

    I did notice that I am not getting full piston extension on the slave. it is @ 1/4 from the end of the housing. Maybe I have some air in it.. IDK.. I tried a air style bleeder first and tried it old school after that. it seemed to be bleed, but I could have air.
    can anyone tell me what slave they are running. I have a 3/4 wilwood that was recommended by wilwood tech support. the slave is just something I found at parts store. 3/4 bore , say AS 400 on it.
     
  22. CalGasser
    Joined: Apr 11, 2005
    Posts: 795

    CalGasser
    Member

     
  23. CalGasser
    Joined: Apr 11, 2005
    Posts: 795

    CalGasser
    Member

    I've run a hyd. TO bearing for many years. I once talked with Red Roberts who is the founder of McLeod Ind. as I was running his bearing. He told me these bearings are designed to run constantly so you can have it touching the fingers on the PP. Their new units now have spacer rings so you can extend the bearing further in if needed. If you don't have it resting on the PP, there won't be enough throw - like what you're now experiencing. I know, I too was once concerned about my bearing turning constantly...
     
  24. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    Well back at it again , dad drove it for a few miles and now it will not go into gear.
    It must be air, I don't know what else it could be .
     
  25. CalGasser
    Joined: Apr 11, 2005
    Posts: 795

    CalGasser
    Member

    Not to insult anyone but is the clutch disc in the right direction? I installed one wrong (brain fart) after many years of installing clutches...
     
  26. 54fierro
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 493

    54fierro
    Member
    from san diego

    If it works for awhile your issue is probably in the hydraulics not you mount or travel. Maybe an internal leak on the master
     
  27. 33FDPU
    Joined: Dec 22, 2013
    Posts: 24

    33FDPU
    Member

    we took the mount off and welded a brace on it. we bleed it and bleed it and bleed it some more.

    goes in gear so time will tell. I thank all of you for the wisdom. I really appreciate it.
    PS.. I believe the clutch is in right. we made sure we studied it before mounting it.
     
  28. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,730

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I quit using brake fluid in hydraulic clutches and started using jack oil. I was tired of all the leaks they would develop.

    Jack oil isn't very heat tolerant compared to brake fluid, just in case someone thinks they should use it in brakes. It's a bad idea unless there's an emergency. It'll boil and the brakes will fail, if it gets good and hot.

    Anyhow our old IHCs would always leak from the clutch slave cylinders, and that is the cheap easy quick and dirty fix..
     
  29. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,564

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You may try some different bleeding methods if you haven't tried them all.
    The injections pump type bleeders work pretty good.
     
  30. Lawley
    Joined: Jul 4, 2010
    Posts: 10

    Lawley
    Member
    from napa ca

    Did you ever figure this out I'm having the same problem with a flathead and t5 it will go into gear and then after a few miles on it I have to tighten up the pressure on the fingers
     

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