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Technical T-bucket steering help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by a12, Feb 18, 2022.

  1. a12
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 39

    a12
    Member

    Hi guys,

    Trying to help my father in law fix a goofy steering set up he has on a t-bucket he bought. The power steering rack is causing issues with several things, but mainly, my concern is safety.
    The rack’s arms are angled way too rearward when they connect to the spindles causing the wheels to never have a correct toe in. He took it into a shop to have the spindles reversed (arms facing forward) but that made it worse. I don’t know much about t-buckets but I’m thinking this whole rack and pinion needs to be removed and a Vega cross steer system should go in it’s place. He has a power steering pump (Saginaw, I believe but not sure) and I do see they make a power Vega pump. I haven’t seen the car in person, so I’m shooting at the hip with the limited bucket knowledge I have.
    Am I going down the right path thinking this will fix this steering contraption correctly? Also, what other parts will I need to do the conversion correctly?

    thanks guys!

    Dave
    83E737F6-B293-484C-92A0-6E73C016E8C8.jpeg
     
  2. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I agree, just remove the rack and replace with cross steer. That car is light enough that finding a suitable gear shouldn't be a problem, corvair, vega, etc.

    The tie rod angles are totally wrong with the way its setup and easier and cheaper just to scrap it and replace with cross steer.

    Only down side is losing the power steering BUT with as light as a t bucket is he may not notice it at all and if set up right the steering will feel a bunch tighter more positive UNLESS he has any disabilities and needs power steering.

    If so they do make power vega gears but more expensive. But again a better option then what you have now.

    Good luck and have fun !!

    .
     
    Snicklefritz65 likes this.
  3. chop&drop
    Joined: Oct 11, 2006
    Posts: 668

    chop&drop
    Member

    That whole steering setup is WRONG. Scrap it and go to cross steer. A car as light as a t-bucket shouldn’t need power steering with the right manual box.
     
    Tman, mad mikey and Just Gary like this.
  4. There's practically no weight on the front end. Motor looks to be at least a foot behind it. Cross steer it, add a panhard bar. Shouldn't need power steering. Flip the spindles back and get the arms facing the rear so you get some ackerman too.
     
    Snicklefritz65 likes this.

  5. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    There's 900 -1000 lbs on the front of the average T , side delivery steering with an early mustang , Vega or corvair box have been done to death , & WORK , many other boxes to choose from , with his 4 link front end , bumpsteer should not be an issue .
     
  6. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    Hard to get correct Ackerman with the steering arms in front.
     
  7. a12
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 39

    a12
    Member

    Great advice guys, thank you. I’ll search out the parts and get them ordered. Thank you and I’ll keep you guys updated once I can get down there and get things worked out for him.
    Cheers
    Dave
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  8. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    I would encourage you to look for a new front axle , trying to remove all that welded on r&p garbage may be a " not worth it " situation .
     
    mad mikey and Just Gary like this.
  9. tj
    Joined: Aug 19, 2006
    Posts: 575

    tj
    Member

    Google “Ron Pope”. He offers aVega upper frame rail mount that uses a conventional mount instead of cross steer in case you have clearance issues with the cross steer.
     
  10. OP seemed comfortable with doing cross steer. And his steering shaft is up there anyway. Oh, and I never settle for 'should not be', when there's a solution.
     
  11. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Well. Aren't you special !:rolleyes:
     
    Jibs and hotrodjack33 like this.
  12. That mess must have been built by a Politician. Your most basic steering system out there and without any hesitation at all made it so complex there's no way in Hell it's going to work. And then add to that it went to a Shop of some kind and couldn't get it resolved. Sorry your Dad is having so much trouble trying to have some fun. At least He knows things aren't right.
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  13. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    :)I would keep the ooga horn though
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  14. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,796

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Cross steer on this one is going to be tough, with the axle that far ahead of the frame rails, and the radiator about where the steering box would mount. I would go with side steer.
     
    RICH B, Jibs, hotrodjack33 and 10 others like this.
  15. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 16,380

    Paul
    Editor

    I'd keep the headlight stands and title.
     
    alanp561, Tman, X38 and 2 others like this.
  16. a12
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 39

    a12
    Member

    image000000_01.jpg

    Thanks guys. Yeah, my father-in-law bought this already built then took it to a shop to have a few things fixed. I knew right away looking at it this wasn't right. Can you guys recognize what spindles they are? I went on Speedway's site and think they are Ford but not sure the year.

    He's bringing me the car next week so I can correct this gobbledygook contraption and get him back on the road. He's always wanted one, then bought this without much research, and now I'd like to fix it for him so he can enjoy some Spring cruising..... Steerable!!

    Cheers
    Dave
     
    MO_JUNK, bchctybob and 2OLD2FAST like this.
  17. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    Model A axle, 42-48 ford spindles
     
  18. Blake 27
    Joined: Apr 10, 2016
    Posts: 1,504

    Blake 27

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  19. ^^^ Mustang box would be the way to go IMHO. And probably another axle since someone welded all that crap onto it.
     
  20. Is that a trailer spring? :confused:
    Personally, I think it's start over time.
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  21. That does look like a trailer spring.:eek:
     
  22. Wow! I agree
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  23. If you can find a '60s Ford Econoline or Dodge A-100 van steering box, it's a good side steer setup with a push-pull drag link to the left spindle. The Dodge A-100 is a Saginaw (GM) box, so I'm betting '60s Chevy/GMC vans use the same box. I used to have a '69 Dodge A-100 van--manual steering that was almost effortless, no need for power.
     
  24. I love the H.A.M.B because you always get 3 different answers to any one question, and then there's opinions. My outlook is,, what's wrong with a Ford Axle just because someone has welded on it? Don't look like any weld has failed and the Axle isn't bent. It's on so I say leave it till something goes wrong with it. Your right, it looks like a Trailer spring. I bet it don't know it's on a T Bucket. If it carries the load and your Dad like the ride, what's the problem? If we were building it from scratch each one of us would do something different. This fix it job don't need to brake the bank or start from scratch. I agree the Rack is a dumb idea and don't work, that's all that needs to be addressed for now until something else comes to light. Keep it fun and get it done, don't reinvent it. Heck if we're just going to pick it to pieces, I wouldn't have built the spring perch as it is but it would still just hang the spring.
     
  25. a12
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 39

    a12
    Member

    Wow, great Intel men! I'll look into that Mustang box thread.

    We'll get this worked out for him. I hate that he finally bought something he's wanted and got stuck with this. But, we'll make it right.... Trailer spring and all! :)

    I appreciate the help. Once I figure out a parts list I'll post up and see if you guys think I'm heading in the right direction.

    Dave
     
    bchctybob, Pist-n-Broke and mad mikey like this.
  26. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    I've no idea about the " trailer" part , its a spring of suitable length , configuration and spring rate to adequately support the weight of the front of the car though .
     
  27. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I'm with pist-n-broke and 2OLD2FAST here.

    Just fix the steering and enjoy it. If you start nit picking you'll have the whole thing torn down into just parts and and unable to enjoy.

    BTW it's great you stepped up to help him make it safe and drivable and help him to fulfill his dream !

    Fix the steering and enjoy!!
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  28. Maybe I'm not seeing things correctly...but is the driver side kingpin missing the bearing? Or maybe it's been apart and is in process of mock up.

    If the spindles can be swapped side for side (sometimes difficult on suicide/t-bucket front suspension) the steering geometry (ackerman) will be much better. As others have said, the Mustang option should work well.
     
  29. a12
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 39

    a12
    Member

    It’s apart in someone’s shop he took it to in hopes of having it fixed, but he couldn’t figure it out. It’s back together at my Father-In-Law’s house and will be here next week.

    Jumping online to see about parts. I looked at the Mustang option, but seems the Vega cross steer would be better. Either way, it’ll be better than the contraption that’s on there now! Would a spindle swap be necessary with this to allow the cross steer arm to be bolted to the spindle? It appears since the right spindle (and left) has the steering arm cast as part of the spindle, that gets hacked off then another arm bolts to the bottom. Is that correct? I see Speedway # 7022754 1-3/4” drop steering arm may be what I need, or the other that’s just straight #91632029. He’s decided a new tilt column will go in as well. Not sure why he just didn’t build the darn thing from scratch! ;-)

    I also plan on going over all the welds to look for cracks. I don’t know how old the car is or who built it, but I’ll double check everything too.

    (EDIT) Just zoomed in on a picture of the right spindle and the outer tie rod end was hacked off. So with that, replace the whole spindle with a non-hacked one or lop the rest of the arm off and bolt a new one on (if the lower steering arm can be bolted on)???
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
  30. Blake 27
    Joined: Apr 10, 2016
    Posts: 1,504

    Blake 27

    I think Marty is correct. The drag link should as close to parallel to the tie rod as possible. Vega Steering.png
     

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