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T-5 Shifter question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by dsiddons, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,338

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    Putting a T-5 behind my flathead. Lokar's longest shifter is only 16 inch. They say becouse of the throw. I would like to go longer. Anyone running a 32 inch? I have seen pics with long shifters behing the t-5. Any trouble? How long can I go? HELP!!!
     
  2. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,815

    chaddilac
    Member

    Can't you just weld on a rod to the stock shifter?
     
  3. If you are adding a T5 for better shifting why would you handicap it with a long throw and more wear on the internals that comes with a tall shifter? The Fauxtallshifter thing is fine, it really needs to stay in RatFink cartoons.
     
  4. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,338

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    It's not that. It's the length? I can trial run a few lengths I guess. Just wondering how the throw will be?
     
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  5. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,338

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

  6. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,338

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    I was going with a stock seat and the 16 inch lockar is a little short. If I do the mini van seat on the floor the 16 will work. Your probably right.
     
  7. Also, if you have the tranny and shifter you dont need Lokar

    Modify, cut weld add on etc.
     
  8. laid55
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 359

    laid55
    Member

    look in the Jeg's catalog.B&M sells a short throw kit for the T-5.then you won't have that far of a shift throw with the tall shifter.
     
  9. 272sedan
    Joined: Jan 8, 2008
    Posts: 123

    272sedan
    Member

    straighten out some cloths hangers tape them together then tape them to the shifter, bend as needed to make what you want, then take some round rod and bend it like the cloths hanger pattern you just made, cut the shifter off where you want and weld it together, be sure to remove and take apart the shifter as there is a teflon piece in there you dont want to melt. using this method will tell you how the throw will work
     
  10. Have a look at the T5 shifter on Limeworks site. Basically they've added a Gennie swan neck.
     
  11. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,231

    nexxussian
    Member

    Hurst used to make a short throw shifter for the T-5 that fit in the S-10's (don't know if they still do, have seen a few on E-pay). As the S-10s have a similar seat height issue it might work out better for what you are trying. If you are worried about a longer stick bending the shift forks with the stock shifter mechanism, it will, if you keep heaving on the stick after it's in gear. All the short throw shifters I have seen come with adjustable over travel stops though. A point to remember, all the short shifters I have seen for the T-5 in a car application had a stubby little shifter, so I have to wonder how much better it would be after you bolt the longer stick to it. I have the stock shifter on the T-5 in my A (my Avatar is the before pic). It is annoyingly long on the shift throws and I have a 12 1/2" stick on it. I plan on a short throw shifter in the immediate future.
     
  12. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    I welded a 10 dollar chromed Model A shifter arm on my S-10 T-5.(I took it apart so not to melt the nylon parts) Its not good for racing.:D:rolleyes: I don't want my head to be below the dash board when reaching for 5th gear. It has a long throw more like and old car than a Hurst Competition plus but it's up where I can reach it. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be any used Hipo shifters on the market. Right now I can't justify 175$. I may upgrade it later.

    Someone did a tech article on shortening the throw of a stock T-5 shifter. I can't find it now. It wouldn't have the shift stops but I'm not into banging gears. Anybody know where I saw that?

    And while we are at it, is the Mustang shifter the same below the mounting plate... can you re-drill a hot rod Mustang shifter to bolt to the GM tailshaft?
     
  13. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,769

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I copied this from another site: Not sure why the pictures didn't come up. If you want the pictures, PM me your e-mail and I'll send it as an e-mail attachment.



    That T-5 throw too long ?
    You've tossed the original 3-speed in favor of a more modern manual tranny with more gears (and more speed!), but it seems like you're reaching all the way across Kansas to get to 5th gear! Here's John Sandoval with an easy mod -- save your bucks -- don't go to the speed shop for one of those high-dollar fancy short-throw shifters! You already have everything you need to...
    ________________________________________
    Make a short-throw shifter out of your stock T-5!
    After swapping my T-5 transmission into my ’45 Chevy pickup earlier this year, I decided that I couldn’t leave well enough alone. There wasn’t anything wrong with the the T-5's original shifter but I just wanted to make one more improvement. Although, short throw shifters are available, it seems funner to make one out of the existing T-5 shifter. It’s just a matter of raising the pivot point inside the shifter by one inch.
    There are three tabs holding the top of the shifter together. Pry open just two of them as shown in this picture. Then you can slide the top over and off.
    When you disassemble the parts of the shifter, make sure you note the order in which you remove parts -- this is critical for reassembly. In this picture, you can see all of the parts laid out. Notice the pivot pin on the stick shifter.
    Here you can see the pin is driven out and the plastic ball is slid off.
    Re-drill the pivot hole exactly one inch up the shaft. It is critical for the hole to be centered and located exactly 1” up.
    Pivot pin is tapped back in, plastic ball is slid on and ready for reassembly. Also note that the shifter is bent to fit my truck. It was bent in a hydraulic press with no heating cutting or welding.
    Before reassembly, clean up and grease all the internal parts. Make sure you reinstall the parts in the reverse order of how you removed them. The two tabs are hammered back down.
    Here it is reassembled. You can see that the end protrudes down more and you can see that the old pivot hole is visible.
    Here’s where it comes in handy having a machinist friend. This aluminum spacer is exactly one inch thick and has the same hole pattern as the top plate of the shifter.
    In this picture you can see that everything needed is all together and ready for reinstallation.
    Here it is back on the transmission. You can barely notice the difference. Also, the top of this assembly may interfere with the underside of your floorboard because it sets higher, so make an adjustment if necessary for clearance.
    After putting everything back together, I was quite pleased with the results. The total height of the shifter is about 17” from the floor board to the top of the knob. Previously the distance from 1st to 2nd gear was about 8 inches at the knob. After this modification, it still has the same height from the floorboard to the top of the knob but the travel is now 5 inches from 1st to 2nd gear.
    I took a cruise around town (with a big grin on my face) and I don’t know how this compares to a store-bought unit, but this set up sure has a nice feel to it.
    Good luck,
    John

    John Sandoval
    "steppenwood"
    1945 Chevy 1/2-Ton
    Bolter # 2251
     
  14. Tommy,,why would you put your HEAD below the dash board?:confused::eek::D HRP
     
  15. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,102

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I put a T-5 behind the 235 in my 37 chevy p/u and cut off the original shifter and attached it to the T-5 shifter,it does seem like the shifer moves more now but I think I have it bent where it will work just fine.
     
  16. I used the 23 inch swan neck from Limeworks and don't have a problem. I just welded it to a lower two inch part of an old shifter and installed it. As for shifting I have no problem. It does feel a little weird compared to my old 12 inch but nothing uncomfortable. It just feels sloppier because there is a longer throw when shifting.When I had the shorter shifter in there it felt really tight. Now it feels looser but I have never had it pop out of gear or felt like I had to reach to get into 5th.It will get worse the longer you go. But if you want to race it stay with the shorter style.If your not worried about that go long and don't worry about it.
     
  17. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Because I'm so short and fat, that to reach down far enough to get a 12" shifter into OD, I wouldn't be able to see out of the windshield.:D You don't have that problem with a channeled Model A where you sit along side the driveshaft.:D

    Thanks guys I've got them bookmarked now. I may give that a try.
     
  18. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,846

    Truckedup
    Member

    The shifter can be as crude or fancy as ya like.This is the Camaro-S10 hybred tranny in my 37 Chevy PU.The shifter is just a length od 5/8 rod welded to the original T-5 shifter stub,a bolt welded to the top for the shifter knob and shaped to my tastes.I also adapted the orignal parking brake handle to bolt on the side of the T-5.The truck floor is wet,I was spinning donuts in the snow this morning:D
    [​IMG]
     
  19. 392_hemi
    Joined: Jun 16, 2004
    Posts: 1,737

    392_hemi
    Member

    Whatever you do, I would start with an aftermarket shifter that has stops built into it. The stock one does not, so when you bang a shift, all the force is on the aluminum shift forks. Most of the GM T5's I've rebuilt required new shift forks because of this. I just got a very nice T5 shifter from Driveline Components, which is Red Robert's new company (he ran Weber and McLeod previously), and will be adding my own stick.
     
  20. Well, as long as we're talking T-5's.....

    Is there really that much difference between the WC & NWC versions?

    My local Pull-A-Part will produce a NWC version regularly. Waiting for a WC out of a Camaro might take a while though.... & I'd rather not wait.

    JH
     
  21. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,304

    tjm73
    Member

    Short answer: Yes a rather fair ammount of difference as far as longevity and strength goes. Enough diff that I wouldn't consider a NWC.

    flaternie did a huge "ultimate T5" thread that will answer all your questions. Just search it and ye shale have yer answers.
     
  22. ibcalaveras
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 599

    ibcalaveras
    Member

    I bought a short throw shifter W/stops and a long Hurst handle from Dark Horse a Mustang shop for my Roadster some time ago. I haven't used it yet, but it sure look Kool as hell. I think I paid under 200.00 including a white hurst knob.
     
  23. paco
    Joined: Oct 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,138

    paco
    Member
    from Atlanta

    In defense of the Non WC T5 - behind a flathead it should surfice. Unless of course it's a NITRO burning flathead.

    Shifter location is the biggest key to these transmissions. WC trans ended up in lots of mustangs & other performance vehicles - that actually need them. Bearing designs were upgraded in the WC trans. Gear ratios are the other benny of the WC trans. A 60 or 100 hp flattie should live "a lifetime" IMO.

    But......if your hell bent on the WCT5.......for your flat engine - a tailshaft from the S10 can be traded out & work fine.

    I'm actuqally ISO a 88-9 S10 t5 right now. It has the manual speedo in the tail shaft - later models are electronic.

    I've seen NWC trans sell from $75.00 - $500.00- depending on miles & rebuild. A WC START at $500.00 & go higher.......but the are a bit better a trans.

    Paco
     
  24. I've read pages from Flaternie, just hadn't seen that question answered.

    Mine will be going behind a hot 283. Sounds like I need to find a WC trans. With the junk yard full of S-10's, at least the tail shaft swap shouldn't be a problem.

    JH
     
  25. This thread has become rather informative!
     
  26. wayne-o
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 266

    wayne-o
    Member

    I was wondering the same a Tommy, will a Mustang short throw aftermarket shifter fit the S10 case? Anyone know? Can it fit with some modification?
     
  27. Guys,

    Here's part of an email I sent out to someone a few months ago detailing my T5 adventures. I am not an expert at all on them but learned more than I want to by the time the truck was back on the road in 2003.

    -------
    There should be an aluminum tag on one of the transmission housing bolts. Do NOT lose this tag! With it you can find out everything you want to know about the transmission. The numbers cast on the housings are meaningless most of the time. Just a couple of items to help you identify your transmission; The Camaro/'vette V-8 version T5 had a 26 spline input shaft that measures 1.125 inches and the shifter is located at the very back end of the tail shaft housing. The S10 version usually has a 14 spline input shaft measuring 1" (not 100% sure here) diameter but I have seen a few with a 10 spline input shaft. The V6 (all S10) transmissions will not bolt up to a V8 Chevy engine because the input shaft and front bearing retainer housing on all of the V6 transmissions is about 1.250 inches longer than the V8 models. The shifter on the S10 transmissions is located at the very front of the tail shaft housing right where it joins the main housing. A rarely seen T5 comes out of the Chevy Astro van, it has the shifter located almost exactly in the middle of the tail shaft housing and most of the ones I have seen have the speedometer connection located on the passenger side of the tail shaft. None of the S10 transmissions that I have seen with the mechanical speedometer are "World Class" (WC) transmissions. The world class is a better transmission and will handle more horsepower than the non world class models. This isn't really a concern if you are going to run it behind a flathead because the S10 tranny is rated for approximately 200 foot pounds of torque. Some WC models are rated as high as 375 foot pounds of torque. The Astro model is considered desirable due to the location of the shifter but they are pretty hard to find and all of them were V6 transmissions (see V6 vs. V8 above). You can however swap out the V6 gear set with one from a V8 model because the housing with the exception of the front bearing retainer is the same. I recently did this for my son's 58 Chevy truck. In addition to the front bearing retainer, you have to replace the input shaft, and all forward travel gears except 5th gear and a couple of the bearings due to shaft diameter differences. I have spent the last 5 months in the T5 school of hard knocks but I am about to graduate this week when the new transmission is finally installed and connected to the newly shortened driveshaft. My $150 4 speed to a 5 speed swap turned into about $1100 by the time it is finished. I am looking forward to trying it out in the next few days.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    You might even look around the wrecking yards in your area for a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Monza</st1:place></st1:City> or the Olds/Pontiac version of this car. They used a 5 speed that is a direct bolt up to the standard Chevy bell housing regardless of 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engine. It isn&#8217;t a T5 but the transmission looks pretty beefy. I found out about this transmission after mine was completely rebuilt and ready to install. The owner of the shoeboxford website had one sitting behind his shop.
     
  28. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,408

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Look closely on the '89s - some do have electronic speedo. I *THINK* it's actually a trim-level option. I believe if you got the digital dash that was an option you got the electronic speedo. But this is a hunch only. I do know both manual & electronic speedos have been found in T5 decoded to '89 S10. YMMV

    I won't pay $500 for a WC trans - they're just too plentiful.

    WC v NWC is an overstated concern for a flathead IMO. Even a SBC in a light car, with skinny bias plies & open rear - not too worried about a NWC. Is WC better? Yep. Would I walk by a NWC for certain applications? No way.

    The other benefit is gearing - the NWC typically has lower gears, so if you're putting it in an early Ford with a converted banjo & 3.78/4.11 gears, the early S10 with their 4.03 1st gear will be deep!
     
  29. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,304

    tjm73
    Member

    Which T5 is rated at 375 ft-lbs? Highest I've seen in an OE application is about ~310 ft-lbs in the '93 Ford Cobra Mustang and 330 in the Ford Racing Performance Parts "Z-SPec" T5.

    There are at least 2 aftermarket T5 places that are building the boxes to take around 500 ft-lbs. But prices are approaching Tremec territory. So unless you need the T5 for a racing class (in 5.0 drag racing this is common), you would go Tremec.
     

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