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synchronized 3 speed w/overdrive against the original Model A engine, w/torquetube

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by manyolcars, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

  2. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    I'm wondering what's the combo you used between the motor/transmission? Fly wheel, pressure plate, clutch and release bearing.
     
  3. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Thanks Manyolcars for this awesome post!

    IMG_4972.jpg IMG_4969.jpg
     
    Fabber McGee likes this.
  4. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Thank you Departed. Those are the pictures I've been waiting to see. Cross member clearance with the 4 speed.
     
  5. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Fabber McGee,
    I might have to cut part of the lip off the side of the cross member for assembly. I can assemble it by lifting the front of the motor (lowers the tail end) and have enough clearance to put the torque tube and clam shell together. However, this may cause problems later down the road if I want to take it apart once the body is on top.
    I will cut a little at a time to make sure I take as little as possible to be able to put the clam shell assembly together.
     
  6. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,165

    manyolcars

    I'm glad you guys are using the information. Just wait until you drive it!! A bone stock A engine with this transmission will run off and leave a hopped up A with stock transmission just because you can shift so quickly
     
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  7. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Can't wait to try it !
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  8. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Manyolcars, did you use the AA pressure plate ? I don't seem to have room for the A throwout bearing.
     
  9. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    You will need a V8 type thrust bearing carrier ,,they are a lot shorter,,it will work with your A bearing ,,and fits your forks ,,
     
  10. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,165

    manyolcars

    I used the Model A pressure plate and the AA throwout bearing carrier because its shorter
     
    Departed likes this.
  11. Subscribed



    Walt
    Outsiders CC
     
  12. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Where can I find one ? I'm trying to find a AA bearing carrier but don't seem like anyone sells them.
    Maybe they're the same as the V8 ones ?
     
  13. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    The V8 type is what I used and I had a good A bearing ,,stick a wanted ad on and see how you go ,,
     
  14. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    I must be able to buy a new V8 bearing carrier online ?
     
  15. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    Don’t know if you can get a new one but someone would have one laying around surely,,they would be the same from 32-48 at the least ,,I’ve had good results from wanted ads ,,try the F/B Model A site or the HAMB ads ,,,
     
    Departed likes this.
  16. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 818

    lake_harley
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    Departed and RoddyB34 like this.
  17. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
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    That’s it ,,good price alright,,,
     
  18. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
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    from Canada

    Who did your splines? Looks clean. Did they have to anneal it and re harden it? I’m not overly happy with the machine work on mine. And only half the splined end is hardened ...... might have to find another shaft and start over :-/
     
  19. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,165

    manyolcars

    Except avoid Macs.
     
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  20. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,436

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Moser Engineering did mine.
     
  21. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    How does the u-joint fit? Did he anneal the shaft to cut the splines ?
     
  22. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,436

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    U-joint fits nice an snug. Don't believe they annealed it. It is turned down and cut in a blank area of the shaft that may not have been hardened originally. I honestly don't know. But it fits really good and I know other guys that have had them spline theirs and have had no issues.
     
    Departed likes this.
  23. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Whether the shaft was annealed or not, I don't believe any Model A engine ever built could hurt any part of that transmission. It is basically the same transmission as the top loader 4 speed that did duty in Fords all through the muscle car era of the 60s and 70s. The overdrive transmissions use different ratios and different shifting mechanisms, but the gears and shafts are mostly all interchangeable. The overdrive cases have a bulge in the side to accommodate the big gear on the counter shaft for the overdrive ratio, so those gears won't fit in a 4 speed case. However, the 4 speed gears and shafts should all fit the overdrive case. I've read that some of the lighter duty applications used a smaller bearing where the tail shaft goes through the case, but no Model A or B engine should be able to hurt any of it.

    Drive it like you stole it.
     
  24. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    The overdrive gear train does fit in the regular four speed case with a few modifications, oddly enough the big overdrive gear doesn't hit the non-bulged case.

    I did this conversion many years ago (pre interweb) before I knew of the existence of the "Toploader Imposter".
    I did have to relieve the reverse shaft support part of the case to clear the second biggest gear on the countershaft, however, and make a thicker thrust washer for the reverse sliding gear, plus a few smaller alterations.

    So there is a bit of machine work involved with the conversion.
     
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  25. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    That's good news, that the overdrive gear set will fit. I'm gathering parts now to put the Jeep version of the 4 speed transmission in a 29 Tudor. I think the Jeep version is a T-176 if I remember correctly. It already has a very short output shaft to couple with the transfer case and a top shift cover. If I decide sometime that I need overdrive I could just swap in the gears. Shift pattern would be weird is all, I think.
    I've rounded up 3 of the Jeep transmissions. One of them was just the case sticking out of a bucket in the back of a pickup sitting in front of me at a stop light, haha. I followed the guy and found out that he had broken the reverse slider gear speed shifting as fast as he could forward to reverse when he was stuck in a mud hole. The transmission shop that took it apart to see what was wrong sold him a granny gear pickup 4 speed to stand his abuse. I got the broken one in pieces for 20 bucks.... he even threw in the bucket, haha. Occasionally my lucky stars fall into alignment.
     
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  26. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    87D5E4C4-A047-456C-879C-358D0E5134B6.jpeg 15839BC8-F738-445C-A082-59E4DEE9D073.jpeg 87D5E4C4-A047-456C-879C-358D0E5134B6.jpeg I ended up ditching the banger and adapted my shortened 3 speed trans to a Mercruiser 4 via a steel scattersheild ,,been running around for a couple of months now ,,works well ,,looks original underneath to fool the experts ,,
     
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  27. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Nice job Roddy. Is that an aluminum case or grey paint?
     
  28. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    Thanks Fabber it’s grey paint on a Lakewood steel scattersheild with the stock type mounts added ,,the front radius rod mount also mounted underneath
     
  29. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    The T176 transmission has a 3.52 to 1 first gear, compared to a regular Ford toploader of 2.78.
    So you could use numerically lower rear end gears to give you a "normal" first gear, while giving a low rpm highway high gear.
    I don't recall what type of differential you are using, but if an 8 or 9 inch, that means you could use the super low number highway gears (2.50 or 2.79) and still have decent ratios in the lower gears, in other words the car would drive as if it had an overdrive transmission.
     
  30. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    Thanks Fabber it’s grey paint on a Lakewood steel scattersheild with the stock type mounts added ,,the front radius rod mount also mounted underneath so it all looks stock
     

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