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synchronized 3 speed w/overdrive against the original Model A engine, w/torquetube

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by manyolcars, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Where did you get the rebuild kit ?


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  2. 55styleliner
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 521

    55styleliner
    Member

    It can be bolted to a Flathead V8 with an adapter from Model Engineering Company.

    5B155F45-BD00-41EF-A757-71DA6258E5E3.jpeg
    75EC86BC-BF19-45A7-936B-6CB3E4DCFFF8.jpeg
     
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  3. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 791

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    55, did you split your wishbone? Clean set up.
     
  4. 55styleliner
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 521

    55styleliner
    Member

    I used a Johnny Joint and a torque arm with an open drive conversion on the rear and split the front.

    6D041351-6CE5-4264-9A94-7978C9917FC6.jpeg C113FAC5-FBE2-4ECB-B161-9C8AC99C2288.jpeg
    99DD4FEC-26E9-4C97-BD55-33C61A3B95EB.jpeg
     
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  5. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 791

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    55, that's a good clean way to eliminate the torque tube. Never seen a Johnny Joint before, is it rubber or spherical?
     
  6. 55styleliner
    Joined: May 11, 2015
    Posts: 521

    55styleliner
    Member

  7. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,269

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

  8. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    [​IMG]

    The 4X4 is the same transmission except the tail section is different and shorter output shaft


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  9. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,063

    manyolcars

    I have gotten several messages asking for more information---I think its all in my posts ---but more info might be good. My post number 6 has no pictures because before and after look the same but the procedure was interesting. First, the driveshaft could have been shortened by cutting a new taper at the back but we extended the splines at the front so that the driveshaft center bearing will have a fresh surface to run on. Cut this on the lathe. The splines were extended first, then excess was cut off. The tool used with the mill was a dividing head with index plate and a chuck. This made splines on the transmission output shaft and the driveshaft. The mill did not actually cut splines, it made two cuts each and together they formed the spline. Machinists probably know this but it was interesting to see thats how Henry did it too.

    dearly departed :) added pictures showing the 4 wheel drive transmission that is the same except it has extra parts you take off and put in the scrap pile. The 81-83 transmission has the same internals which you can use for spare parts but the shifter is in the wrong place.
    55 styleliner points out that you can do this with open driveshaft, I wanted to keep the torque tube. I've been using Heim joints or spherical rod ends for 35 years. This is the only time I've seen them called johhny joints but I did the same thing he did on my 1935 Ford pickup. I had to make ladder bars for it to take the stress from the 350 sbc
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  10. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 237

    railcarmover

    That trans has a weak input bearing..and hell,instead of hacking everything up just buy a mitchell.. 20171021_174218_resized.jpg
     
  11. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 791

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    What trans has a weak input bearing?
     
  12. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,063

    manyolcars

    putting an overdrive in the middle of the driveshaft has to be a dumb idea, It doesnt matter if it works, its still a dumb idea
     
  13. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 791

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    .... and you still have the clunky old Model A transmission with no syncros and poor ratios for modern roads.
     
  14. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Did you have to get the output shaft re tempered after machining it?
    Thanks.


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  15. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,063

    manyolcars

    Good Question, bad memory. I know I took the temper out in order to drill and tap the hole but dont remember if I put it back. What do the metalurgists on the forum say to do?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  16. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Now.. Let's take this to the next level HAHAA.. Would the 4 OD that's been modified for the model A bolt to a hogshead of a 59A flathead V8 ??? ;)


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  17. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

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  18. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 765

    lake_harley
    Member

    I'm considering the OD transmission conversion, and had quite a long talk with Ken a couple nights ago. The conversion does sound do-able, with the help of a friend who has lathes and a milling machine, but I wonder if it could be done with a couple differences to eliminate a lot of the machining work?

    Would it work to use the stock Model A bellhousing......how would that work out, adapting-wise?

    I'm also wondering about leaving the rear of the 3-speed overdrive transmission alone, open driveline, and then install a Model A open drive conversion on the rearend?

    Just wondering how much notching might be necessary to clear the crossmember with the full tailshaft housing still in place?

    I ask this this because I'm more equipped for and accustomed to fabrication than machining.

    Thanks, in advance.

    Lynn
     
  19. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    image.jpeg
    Model A car bellhousing are a bit too long ,the AA truck bell is the one you need the trans mounting face is the same as the V8 "hogshead" pictured above ,,or get the ready made and configured Macs bell housing which gives you a pedal mount and correct length for your input shaft ,
     
  20. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 765

    lake_harley
    Member

    Thanks, RoddyB34. I'll be looking for a AA bellhousing.

    I'm still curious how much cutting and reinforcing might need to be done to the Model A crossmember if I leave the 3-speed OD transmission as open driveline. That would certainly minimize the amount of machining work compared to making the OD transmission compatible with the torque tube. There are a couple Model A rearend open driveline conversion kits I've found, and find them to be affordable for the work and machining I think they would save. I do realize I would have to make provisions for, and fabricate, different radius rods, but that fits my skill set pretty well.

    I made a call today to a salvage yard who has a good inventory of Ford pickups that might have been equipped with the needed transmission. The owner was familiar with the transmission I'm needing and I should hear back from him soon.

    Lynn
     
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  21. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    If you use the AA Bell I don’t think you have to cut much at all from the centre member,,I have just sold a AA Bell ,but I’m in Australia,,the graham McNeil bell housing from New Zealand is worth a look it eliminates the pedal mount problem and gives the correct offset so you don’t have to cut the input shaft ,,saves a bit of work
     
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  22. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 765

    lake_harley
    Member

    Thanks again, RoddyB34!!

    Good to hear that crossmember surgery might be rather minor if using an AA bellhousing......perhaps more of an out-patient surgery? :) I'd go so far as to say I'm pretty proficient at fabricating.

    Regarding the "McNeil" bellhousing, is this the one, or perhaps similar to the McNeil? http://www.vintageprecision.com/products/bell_housings/index.html At $690.00 it's pretty pricy and I don't know if the bellhousing to transmission bolt pattern is the same on a Mustang T5 as the 3-speed w/OD? I have a S-10, T5, but I'm 99% sure the bolt pattern on it is different from that of the Mustang version. I think the shifter position of the 3-speed w/OD would look more "natural" in my A than that of a T5, even with the more forward location on the T5 using a S-10 tailshaft housing.

    I really appreciate your replies and sharing your knowledge!

    Lynn
     
  23. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

  24. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 765

    lake_harley
    Member

    Thanks again! The bellhousings from both Mac's and Vintage Precision would both make for a nice, clean installation....no question. If I were to pick one it would probably be the Mac's version since they offer it with bolt patterns for various transmissions, and eliminating most, if not all of the machining work is a benefit too. My problem is that even though I would have the money to spend on either, I'm been living frugally most of my life and I've become quite a tightwad. :( Maybe an appeal to Santa.....?

    Lynn
     
  25. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,063

    manyolcars

    The first post of this thread answers your question---use the AA bellhousing because It is shorter and you dont have to mess up the crossmember
     
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  26. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 765

    lake_harley
    Member

    Thanks, manyolcars. You had the answer to my question hidden in plain view!

    Lynn
     
  27. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    this may be a stupid question but... How do you keep the oil in the transmission with the tail housing cut off ?
     
  28. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 712

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    Gaskets and silly cone sealer.
     
  29. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    There's still oil coming out through the bearing. The bearing is not sealed. The only seal is on the slip yolk at the end of the tail housing. Since its cut off, there's no way of holding in the transmission oil... As far as I know....??
     
  30. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 712

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    The Model A that my Hobby Member owns has a plate on the back of the trans that keeps the oil in the trans. I've had it apart once and am trying to remember if it had a seal or was a one sided sealed bearing.
     

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