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synchronized 3 speed w/overdrive against the original Model A engine, w/torquetube

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by manyolcars, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    I had a 66 Mustang top loader in my 52 Customline in the late 70's. I don't recall modifying the front bearing retainer. Seems like it was a bolt in. Open drive made it easy. Even found a drive shaft at the wrecking yard that fit. No idea what it was from, it was on a rack with hundreds of others. Takes a longer speedometer cable because the drive gear is on the right side to get it out of the way of the shifter. Speedometer cable also has a different transmission end. I think mine was for a 4 x 4.
     
  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,173

    manyolcars

    From the first post: Your original speedometer cable will work with the transmission this thread was about. I dont know anything about the other transmission those other guys are bringing into this discussion.
     
  3. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    These transmissions have different ways of shifting, different available in and output shafts and different ratios, but are all basically the same Ford top loader 4 speed transmission. The overdrive comes from using what would otherwise be 3 gear in the 4 speed. In other words, in the overdrive transmission 1st and 2nd are in the same place on the mainshaft as in the 4 speed trans. Direct (4th from the 4 speed) is then 3rd gear and the 3rd gear set is then an overdrive ratio instead of being under drive.

    The Jeep short output shaft, rear housing and shifter will fit the overdrive transmissions from Ford and many of the gear sets can be used in any of the cases. I've read that the overdrive gears will not fit the other cases because of one large gear that requires a bulge in the side of the case. Now that I think of it, the overdrive gears might need the Ford overdrive top shift cover to have the correct shift pattern for direct and over. The Jeep top shifter is for the non overdrive box.

    The early Ford speedometer drive is on the torque tube, so any transmission you decide on will have no effect on the speedometer.
     
    ghornbostel likes this.
  4. TOD - in the 80's Ford trucks it is refereed to as the top loader overdrive - not to be confused with the earlier version of the iron case top loader overdrive found in late 70's Ford trucks/vans or maybe cars.
    I will use one of the later aluminum case TOD in my 39 cpe with flathead using a the cast iron Merc bell housing. Most all pics are on my old computer so give me a day or so to post some pics. I will also like to put on of the aluminum ones behind my model A so thanks for the pics and posts.
     
  5. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Re using something behind the early V8's
    I adapted a T-176 CASE to my Flathead, using an adapter from Gene Sanders in Ohio.
    I then replaced the Jeep gears with Ford Toploader gears to get the 2.78 FGR gear set.
    To do this required using the Jeep main shaft, Jeep rear bearing, and Jeep reverse idler.
    All parts fit perfectly.
    I then made an adapter to mount a Gear Vendors Overdrive to the back of the Jeep case, using the Jeep Dana 300 transfer mount.
    This setup has more than 5000 miles on it and really makes for a nice driving car:
    Good for power & very good on mileage.
    I have the Banjo rear (open drive) with 4.11 ratio. In Overdrive this becomes 3.21.
    I can post pictures if anyone is interested tomorrow.
    The only drawback to this setup is the poorly made Jeep shifter housing. Had Jeep made it like a Ford unit, it would've been much better.
    Nice write up Many old Cars

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  6. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Very interested in your photos Jimmy. Also, thanks again to manyolcars.
     
  7. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Jimmy, what chassis is your V-8 and T176 in?
     
  8. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Fabber, I'll get the pics up later today. They're in another computer.
    This setup is in my 32 Tudor sedan.
    Jim
     
  9. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Here's a few pictures: Trans & Overdrive 001.jpg Trans & Overdrive 009.jpg Trans & Overdrive 006.jpg Trans & Overdrive 011.jpg Trans & Overdrive 013.jpg
    The 1st is the Jeep Case with the toploader gears
    The 2nd is the Dana 300 adapter redrilled for the OD
    The 3rd is a pic of the coupler adapter: There is an internal coupling shaft
    The 4th is the trans & OD hooked up
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  10. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Beautiful job Jimmy, did you paint the overdrive to match, or leave it bare? I think my rear housings look different from yours. I'll get some pictures today if they do. I don't remember the wide mating flange at the top. I think mine bolts on inside the housing.

    Looking forward to more photos.
     
  11. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Manyolcars, do you have any pictures of the transmission installed in your Model A? If I read your first post correctly, it sounds like you didn't have to modify the original crossmember. That was my hope and was what got me started down this trail to begin with. I'd like to see how it all fits together and how much clearance you have.
    Thanks, Gene
     
  12. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Yes, Fabber
    I just clear-coated the OD
     
  13. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    image.jpeg my 3 speed 3.03 conversion to torque tube ,T150 Jeep shift ,,used a AA bellhousing ,fabricated a pedal bracket ,about 2 inches longer ,had a test drive and it's great ,,
     
    Tim, waxhead and kidcampbell71 like this.
  14. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Boy, that looks good Roddy. I'm curious how much longer the 4 speed is.

    Checked mine today, the back bearing retainer housing looks just like Jimmy's. Hadn't looked at them in most of a year and didn't remember clearly. Also got some bad news. I thought I had the Jeep gearset with 3.01 low, but when I marked the shafts and counted turns, I found that I have 3.82 in both boxes. I think that's going to be lower than I want, so I checked the ratio in the passenger box I have. I kept it from a 69 Torino when I made a dirt track stock car out of it in 75. It's the 1 3/8 input version that came on the back of a 428. It's the close ratio gearset with 2.32 1st gear and I think that may be higher than I need. Maybe I can trade someone locally for a different box. I know a few guys that might have a 2.78 1st box.
     
  15. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    Thanks Fabber ,,,my 1st gear is 2.79 ,2nd 1.70 ,just with the short drive I've had it will be ok ,,better than noisy crunchy model A trans ,,eventually we are upgrading to a 3.0 litre Mercruiser ,so it will have plenty of power ,,any of these transmissions are hard to get in Australia so I took the cheap option on the 3 speed ,,a very low first wouldn't be much good either ,,,the 4 speed would be another 1and a half inches longer at a guess ,,
     
  16. kenparker0703
    Joined: Aug 17, 2017
    Posts: 1

    kenparker0703

    I have just discovered this message board. Been posting on Fordbarn for many years. I have been building F150 OD kits for the Model A's since 1998. Quit building kits 'bout year ago, but have lots of pictures and some info in my head.

    The technical name for the tranny manyolcars is referring to is TREMEC 170 RTS. Asmentioned above the RTS case is different formr the SROD. But the internal gears are the same. Also from 1984 thru 1987 it comes in three different OD variations. .78 to 1. .72 to 1 and .71 to 1. The .78 was behind the 302 V8. The .78 was behind the 300 cu in 6 cyl and a few 302's. The .71 was behind the 351 V8. clear as mud.

    I have some pictures on computer and am willing to share them with youse guys. Have some diagrams of splines but are not very clear via computer.

    hope this helps someone. ken
     

    Attached Files:

  17. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,173

    manyolcars

    Ken Parker was my mentor on this transmission and taught me everything I know about it. Thank you, Ken. I hope you are doing well
     
  18. Thanks Ken for chiming in ! What ever you can share would be great ! There is also a thread on the A 4 cylinder bangers here on the HAMB - most guys trying to keep to Ford parts.
    I will be running the TOD behind my flathead in my 1939 coupe. Share what you can and will - there will be many on here that will be glad you did !
    And we see Manyolcars adding his thanks.....
     
    RoddyB34 likes this.
  19. 6inarow
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,188

    6inarow
    Member

    This is awesome. I wish someone would do something like this for Chevy torque tubes....
     
  20. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,436

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    In the process of making the conversion onot my 37.
     
  21. Bib Overalls
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,068

    Bib Overalls
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I may have missed it but how does the transmission bolt to the AA bellhousing?

    In the case of flathead V8s can this transmission work with the F1 "hogshead?"
     
  22. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    Bolted back through the original AA mount holes ,,the front face of transmission drilled and tapped ,,sealant on bolt threads ,,
     
  23. jebbesen
    Joined: Aug 18, 2015
    Posts: 410

    jebbesen
    Member
    from Winona, MN

    I know it's been posted in various threads but this article would be a good place to start for adapting the chevy TT. You should be able to treat the back of the ford trans to the same mods as they do the Packard.
    hrm195507p1.jpg hrm195507p2.jpg hrm195507p3.jpg hrm195507p4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    6inarow likes this.
  24. Departed
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 49

    Departed
    Member
    from Canada

    Is it possible the TREMEC 170 RTS was only available in the US ? Because I can't seem to find it here in Canada.....
    Thanks,
    Also; does the transmission bolt directly to the A and AA bell housing?



    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,173

    manyolcars

    Yes, 'departed' see Post 52. The bellhousing is used as a guide to drill and tap holes in the transmission case. One bolt that goes into the case must be the right length or it will jam against the cluster gear. Jamming will prevent the gears from turning, locking up the transmission, causing much aggravation
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
    Departed likes this.
  26. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,518

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    I don't know if it is the same transmission I had but I bought a early 80's Ford f150 and the transmission was bad. I rebuilt the tranny and about 6 months later it went out again. I rebuilt it again and about 6 months later it started to go out again and I sold the truck. It was a 4 speed ,aluminum case with shifter out of the top. I think they referred to it as a 3 speed with overdrive.
     
  27. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,173

    manyolcars

    Which was it? 3 speed or 4? The 4 speed has granny low and does not have overdrive
     
  28. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,600

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Great info
     
  29. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,518

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Did not have granny low.
     
  30. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 805

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Sounds to me like you had some sort of alignment issue that was causing the input or output shafts to side load things. Bellhousing was warped, pilot bearing worn out, transmission case improperly machined, as many hundreds of thousands of those transmissions as there are out there working flawlessly it I can't see how it would be an engineering problem.
     
    Departed likes this.

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