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synchronized 3 speed w/overdrive against the original Model A engine, w/torquetube

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by manyolcars, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    The 1984 to 87 F150 fully synchronised 3 speed with overdrive works wonderfully against the original engine and makes driving the Model A a pleasure.
    This transmission is usually found in a Ford pickup with a 6 cylinder engine and can easily be identified by the straight shifter coming out the top of the trans and no 4 speed PTO door.
    You can use the Model A bellhousing but the center crossmember will have to be notched. I use the AA bellhousing because It is shorter and you dont have to mess up the crossmember, but there is no place for the brake/clutch shaft, so you get to fabricate parts.

    At the rear of the transmission, take the F150 tail housing off and saw off the rear bearing retainer, mill flat, use 1/4" plate to attach the Model A rear bearing retainer. This connects to your A torque tube. The output shaft must be cut down to fit, anneal it and get someone with a mill to spline it to fit the Model A u-joint. Drill and tap the shaft for the A u-joint retaining bolt.
    The driveshaft and torque tube must be shortened somewhere close to 2 1/2". Measure for yourself, this is approximate. Your original speedometer cable will work.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    1/4" plate to fit the F150 rear bearing retainer and the The Model A rear bearing retainer
     

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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
    irishsteve, bct, j-jock and 2 others like this.
  3. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    Starting at the front, take the front bearing retainer off the F150 trans and turn it down slightly so it fits the AA bellhousing. Cut off the tube of the A front bearing retainer and JB Weld it onto the F150 front bearing retainer so your A throwout bearing fits. Make a small bracket for the throwout return spring. The input shaft is a little too long for the bearing in the flywheel, so shorten it about 5/8".
    the picture of the inside of the bellhousing shows the front bearing retainer which was turned down in the lathe so that it fits in the bell housing
    you can see the grease fittings I added and the double bushing which extends into the bell a little

    the blue front bearing retainer shows the small bracket to hold the throwout bearing return spring
    You can also see where the Model A throwout bearing shaft was cut down and JB Welded onto the F-150 front bearing retainer
     

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    j-jock and kidcampbell71 like this.
  4. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    Hollow out a nest on the transmission case for the clutch/brake shaft, fourth pic
    you will need to make this double offset piece to fit the nest.
    I used a lathe
    you could do it with a grinder

    cut a brake/clutch shaft to length,
    weld the 3 pieces together, fifth pic

    Make a brace to hold the outer end of the clutch/brake shaft
    It could be a single leg, but I made it a V
    and I wish I had turned one foot the other way to make it easier to get the bolt in
     

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
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  5. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    I used a motorcycle pull type brake light switch from J&P Cycles, about $5.
    Your car is going to drive much quicker and much faster. I built a new battery box, closer to the frame and used it to mount a bellcrank for the new hydraulic brake master cylinder which also mounts to the new battery box.
    The second pic is a part to hold the handbrake lever, it was angle iron.
    It was easier to install the engine/trans, then I welded on a new Model A shift lever after it was in the car
    The clutch/brake shaft assembly with the V brace was bolted on after the engine was in the car
     

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  6. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    To shorten the driveshaft, we extended the splines in a mill and turned a fresh surface for the driveshaft center bearing. No pictures because before and after look the same
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    j-jock likes this.
  7. GARY?
    Joined: Aug 15, 2005
    Posts: 1,626

    GARY?
    Member

    Awesome!! Thanks for not keeping it a secret.

    Shifter come out close to the stock position?

    Reminds us that shit ain't rocket appliances.
     
  8. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    Shifter is about 3" closer to the seat
     
  9. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    I have a neighbor who wants a Model A. I drove down there and asked if he wanted to go for a ride. He got in. I got the car out into the road and punched it, snapped it into second gear and threw him back in the seat. He wasnt expecting that!
    I shifted into 3rd and asked, "What gear are we in?" He said "third". I shifted again and said, "what about now?" haha
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  10. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 529

    walls
    Member

    Good stuff. Thanks
     
  11. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    It went into this car
     

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    bct and kidcampbell71 like this.
  12. Jungle Jalopy
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 200

    Jungle Jalopy
    Member

  13. cool tech! thanks for posting with clear pictures.
     
  14. GARY?
    Joined: Aug 15, 2005
    Posts: 1,626

    GARY?
    Member

    This is probably the most underrated thread on the HAMB.
     
    6inarow and kidcampbell71 like this.
  15. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,222

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    great stuff!
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  16. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Great post !!!!!!!!!!!!

    4TTRUK
     
  17. slick stuff and great engineering. I can only imagine how impressed your neighbor was after that ride.
     
  18. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 6,777

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

  19. 31ster
    Joined: Dec 26, 2007
    Posts: 215

    31ster
    Member

    Hello manyolcars, I tried to pm you but your box is full. Is this a Borg warner T-85. Or if not what is the actual model designation. Thanks in advance
     
  20. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,664

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Pretty sure it's an SROD, isn't it?
     
  21. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 539

    RoddyB34
    Member

    DSCF1440.jpg


    its one of these ,,,i think they are Tremec,,,looks like a good conversion ,,,hard to get them in Australia so i used a 3 speed 3.03 all synchro from a Maverick with a t150 Jeep shifter,,used the same principles,,just waiting for the output shaft to be machined,,
     
  22. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 802

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    index.jpg Hey manyolcars, I just stumbled onto this thread. Just the information I needed. I've been gathering the pieces to put a T-176 jeep transmission in my 29 Tudor. Same basic trans that you used, but 4 speed with no overdrive. Comes with a short output shaft for attaching the transfer case. Should be easy to adapt to the torque tube ball and I think I can get u-joint yokes to fit the trans and driveshaft without cutting new splines. Thanks for all the photos.
     
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  23. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    I'm glad this info helps. It was passed on to me and I pass it on to you. RoddyB has the right transmission. It is a
    1984 to 87 F150 fully synchronised 3 speed with overdrive. Not the 4 speed ! It fits well against the original engine and makes driving the Model A a pleasure.
    This transmission is usually found in a Ford pickup with a 6 cylinder engine and can easily be identified by the straight shifter coming out the top of the trans and no 4 speed PTO door. Its in my avatar and is working well.
     
  24. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,896

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    This would probably work as well in an early V-8, and no real pedal fab for 39 and up. Anyone try that?
     
  25. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,948

    gas pumper
    Member

    I had a 6 cylinder 1986 Bronco. I scraped it but I saved the trans cause it was too nice to throw away. It's one of these! It's the 4wd version with short tail. I think this is another source. F150 and Bronco share lots of parts.
     
  26. Hmmmm.... I think I need to try this.
     
  27. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,156

    manyolcars

    Yes, after turning .060 off of the front bearing retainer I believe its a bolt in for my 1950 Crestliner and my 1959 Ford Custom 300. I have one transmission ready and am checking the u pull it weekly for another.
     
  28. cvstl
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,436

    cvstl
    Member
    from StL MO
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    I'm getting ready to..... I'm actually going to swap it in place of a '39 box that is currently mated to a sbc to get OD while leaving the banjo and torque tube. I like it as is, but REALLY need OD.
     
  29. Great tech! Any problem running a speedometer cable?
     
  30. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 802

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    The T-176 is part of the Ford top loader family same as your overdrive box is. It is not the big clunky, granny gear transmission used in most pickup trucks. Here's a link to a good description of the top loaders.
    http://www.5speeds.com/toploader.html

    And, here is a quote from that site.
    In passenger cars such as the Mustang and Capri from 1979 to 1983 the Toploader 4 speed was offered with an aluminum case and a single rail shift mechanism. Coded the SROD for Single Rail Over Drive. Tremac coded this the T170FS. These gears are not interchangable with the iron boxes because they changed the bore of the 3rd gear ID section. You can use the SROD cases and rails with an older style gearset and mainshaft but you cannot get your old speedometer gears to line up in the right place.

    Ratio #1: 3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.81 4th, and 3.29 Rev.
    Ratio #2: 3.07 1st, 1.72 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.70 4th, and 3.07 Rev.

    It is important to also know that truck versions of these transmissions exist and sometimes cannot be told apart by someone who is not knowledgable. They use larger front and rear bearings and a large front bearing retainer. They came in cast iron, the SROD alloy configuration and as a top cover shifted or tower shift design mainly in 4 wheel drive Broncos. The Jeep ratios were non overdrive and make great choices for custom ratio swaps in Ford Toploader applications requiring a low 1st gear. Jeeps were alloy tower shift style in 4 wheel and 2 wheel drive.

    Ratio #1: 3.01 1st, 1.78 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.79 4th and 3.01 Rev.
    Ratio #2: 3.25 1st, 1.92 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.78 4th and 3.25 Rev.

    Jeep Ratio #1: 3.52 1st, 2.27 2nd, 1.46 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.52 Rev.
    Jeep Ratio #2: 3.82 1st, 2.29 2nd, 1.46 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.82 Rev.
    Jeep Ratio #3: 3.01 1st, 2.08 2nd, 1.47 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.01 Rev.

    I have rounded up a couple of Jeep transmissions with the #3 jeep ratio which falls right in the range of the stock Model A transmission (low 3.12, second 1.85) I currently have the stock Model A engine and brakes so I don't yet need overdrive very badly (it takes long enough to stop from 55, at this time I don't really want to go much faster, ha,ha). I plan to heat up the engine eventually, so at that time I might switch to the overdrive box. Once the modifications are made to get a top loader in the car, changing to a different one will be easy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    kidcampbell71 likes this.

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