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Customs Super bell steering arms ,forged or cast?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kiwi 4d, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,840

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    We have on hand a set of super bell steering arms, we would like to know if there is a definitive way of telling if they are cast or forged arms. FCFE0690-2237-4FA6-BED9-7884BFD012C4.jpeg DCC3D6F5-C3C8-46D9-9DCC-644F8D0DFD9D.jpeg 809BE34C-5639-4254-826F-61E700E64D5D.jpeg
     
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  2. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,994

    Fordors
    Member

    The wide parting lines on them are always indicative of a forging. Cast pieces will have a knife edge line.
     
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  3. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,318

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Do they ring like a bell?
     
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  4. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,840

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is how Johnny “broken parts” Law lists theirs?..they don’t even know.

    This early Ford steering arm set is Helix™ tough! Cast from heavy grade heat treated forged steel, these 1 3/4” drop steering arms are extremely durable.
     

  5. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,994

    Fordors
    Member

    That copy for the listing sounds as if it was written by one of the guys that likes to say “I’m running steel heads on my engine.”
     
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  6. WiredSpider
    Joined: Dec 29, 2012
    Posts: 723

    WiredSpider
    Member

    They are forged
    I used to work there
    I would go to the suppliers in downtown LA to pick them up and the entire building would be moving up and down
     
  7. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 7,610

    1oldtimer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have the one that looks like a slingshot and it's forged. It bent really nice with some heat.
     
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  8. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,840

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Down under the powers that be say some were cast and we can not use cast items on steering . The little I know I thought super bell meant quality. How do we prove they are forged arms?
     
  9. They are forged. HRP
     
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  10. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,994

    Fordors
    Member

    If the engineer, or official, or whatever they prefer to call them doesn’t recognize them as forged he better have his eyes examined.
     
  11. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Metallurgy 101 --

    Most people seem to place elemental iron materials into one of two categories; cast or forged. (The more complex forms, low to high alloys like chrome-moly and stainless steel, are excluded from this discussion.) Basically, there is:
    • Gray iron (aka cast iron) - generally brittle (breaks but won't bend)
    • Ductile iron (aka nodular cast iron) - also a casting, but malleable, weldable, with far better impact and fatigue resistance than gray iron.
    Cast Steel - mechanical properties are close or equal to forged steel of similar analysis (e.g., most large valves 3" to 96" [and larger] subjected to 5,000 psi and 750°, are steel castings.) As carbon content increases, steel becomes stronger, but more brittle (which is why broken spring leafs are common).
    • Forged Steel - mechanical properties equal to or slightly superior to cast steel of similar analysis.

    Within each of the above categories, there are dozens of standardized analyses that are available to enhance one or more properties. Of the four general types listed above, I would only exclude gray cast iron, as unsuitable for front suspension and steering components. Exclusion of cast steel makes no sense at all.
     
  12. Like some of our hotrod vehicle certifiers down here :(
     
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  13. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,517

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I seem to remember having an old mechanical handbook that showed a "spark test" where a test article was ground slightly on an abrasive wheel of some kind and the spark configuration indicated whether an item was cast iron or various grades of steel. I'm not sure if a test like that would be accepted as evidence for certification but it seems like it might rule out a casting.
     
  14. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,840

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yep have seen that test in some pics some time ago, I think the spark spread and colour was different. I would use it myself ,but very much doubt the certifiers would give it credit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  15. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,312

    Budget36
    Member

    If you can prove to yourself they are not cast iron, can you put the onus on them to prove they are?
     
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  16. They sure look forged to me.
     
  17. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 512

    nobby
    Member

    where you buy those ones with the miss truck logo?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  18. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 6,660

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    They are forged straight and then bent in a press to the various drops. I was told they only forge 1 arm and use it for the right and left just by the way they bend it and machine the tapers in the end.
     
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  19. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 711

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Seems like bullshit if the expert inspectors cannot do their own research....
     
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  20. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 5,211

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    ^^^^^ I agree . Maybe you need to find a different inspector.
     
  21. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 711

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Paint "forged" on them.....
     
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  22. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 711

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    or maybe a sticker would be better....
     
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  23. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 6,930

    19Fordy
    Member

    Another indicator:
    Since the letters have been stamped into the
    steering arms, it suggests to me that the arms are forged.
    Don't think you can "stamp" cast iron like that.
    Most castings have raised letters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  24. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I've read that many forged steel V8 crankshafts are forged as single plane (180°, flat), and actually twisted into the normal two plane (90°) configuration!
     
  25. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 6,930

    19Fordy
    Member

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  26. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,517

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Look up the spark test on the internet. There seems to be several credible websites with info. Pick the most credible one (SAE? NASA?) and talk to your inspector about it. Like someone said, if he's truly qualified he should be able tell from the parting lines, the sound and the sparks that it isn't cast. As far as I know none of the aftermarket steering component manufacturers or retailers provide a metallurgical certification with their parts.
    I feel sorry for you guys.
     
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  27. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,610

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Maybe the inspector can do a nice spark test in the middle of the part, using the corner of the wheel.
    Then he can condemn the part because it has a sharp notch ground in it.
     
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  28. wandi harry
    Joined: Jul 19, 2008
    Posts: 234

    wandi harry
    Member

    Surely superbell can provide something to show they are forged, simple certificate or a link to their company site showing maybe a certificate of authenticity that their arms are forged
    Can't be that difficult
     
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  29. 3banjos
    Joined: May 24, 2008
    Posts: 471

    3banjos
    Member
    from NZ

    I'd cut the eye off that won't be used, and send it down to Justin at LVVTA and ask for it to be tested.
    It's around $80 to get their axles tested, so worth a try.
     
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  30. 3banjos
    Joined: May 24, 2008
    Posts: 471

    3banjos
    Member
    from NZ

    And like 19fordy said, their cast axles have the raised lettering/logo
     
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