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Projects Summit crate 350 - nightmare

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by striper, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Dave Downs
    Joined: Oct 25, 2005
    Posts: 880

    Dave Downs
    Member
    from S.E. Penna

    There has been some talk in this thread about inspection of the engine when accepting delivery during the various shipping phases.

    I think the last thing I would look for in in a plastic wrapped palleted engine would be to see if it was full of water.

    Dented valve covers, major damage from a big drop or missing parts yes but water????
     
    loudbang, 61Cruiser, alchemy and 4 others like this.
  2. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 856

    COCONUTS

    I would bring the motor over to a machine shop and have them go through it, then have it put on a dyno to break it in. take both bills and send them to Summit. Yea, you are not going to get anything out of them but you did everything you could do. Just from your event I would not buy from Summit, at least by mail. I kind of wonder if there was any shipping insurance. i would not feel to bad, you are not the person to get taken advantage of.
     
    Lil32 and striper like this.
  3. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,159

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    You are a stand up guy Pete, those video's were hard to watch... it sucks when you do everything you believe to be right & end up with this!
    Hope the rebuild doesn't reveal any more surprises!
     
    Lil32, Texas57, Sandgroper and 3 others like this.
  4. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,154

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Not that is going to change things or get you anything more than you have right now.
    Your purchase contract was with Summit and anybody else in the food chain is engaged or employed by Summit to ensure they meet their contract obligations to you and I expect you had no choice in whom they engaged.
    The only variance I see to that is a warranty offered which I suspect is on GM and was part of Summit being an agent for GM.

    However, I suspect such damage is outside the scope of manufacturing issues and hence would not be accepted.
    One would suspect that Summit being as large as it is, would want to know about your issue since shipping is their life line and surely it is important to maintain a level of trust with customers who also are the other part of staying in business.
     
    flatheadpete and striper like this.
  5. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,736

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I shipped a 1932 transmission to a fellow down under and gave me specific instructions on what I needed to do to pass customs. The first thing was to clean it very well and make it so they can inspect the crate I built. He was saying it will be taken out and power washed if it doesn’t pass a visual inspection and can see inside the transmission. So I took it all apart and individual packed parts for inspection. This was to prevent invasive species into the country and parts or crate will be treaded some how.
    I dont know if this happened with your situation but it does stink and something to look into.
     
    striper and lothiandon1940 like this.
  6. I THINK for Summit to be responsible in ANY way the condition would have needed to be discovered upon delivery to the buddys place. Summit fulfilled their obligation then.

    Ben
     
    Lil32, Texas57, irishsteve and 4 others like this.
  7. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,642

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I had an engine that had sat under the hood in a vehicle for over 10 years. When I pulled the oil plug, I still got about a pint of water out of it, and it had never been opened up, it still had the factory FI intake intact {FORD}, oil cap was in place, no way rain could have blown into it. Changed the oil, put it in, and it ran fine. Didn't even pull the pan because I knew what water was in it was below the crank. For that engine to get that much water in it, it either sat in the rain a long time, was in a flood somewhere, or it got put in it by someone. I'd say flood is the likely choice, it very well could have been in floodwaters somewhere in transit to the docks. Not every transit company is honest.....there are some that would try and hide any damage to avoid responsibility. Sorry for your bad luck, but maybe you can get it cleaned up and useable for a minimal amount, and as a plus, you'll know how it was assembled.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  8. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 122

    cjtwigt
    Member

    I live in The Netherlands and received a package that was damaged and half of its contents was missing.

    I managed to reclaim my money at the bank that issued my credit card because I ordered the package using my credit card. Maybe you can do the same.



    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Randall and lothiandon1940 like this.
  9. Just saw this. It sucks big time and I feel for ya.
    Your attitude is top notch. I hope the motor ends up working out for you. I bet it will.
     
    Outback likes this.
  10. dirt t
    Joined: Mar 20, 2007
    Posts: 4,718

    dirt t
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kingman,AZ
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    Attitude is everything, pick a good one.
     
  11. RUSS BUCKLIN
    Joined: Sep 18, 2017
    Posts: 143

    RUSS BUCKLIN
    Member
    from Seattle

    So, just my 50 cents as someone who has done a LOT of internet commerce over the last 15 years, If the crate wood does not show water damage or staining and the engine was properly wrapped, the the water was introduced before packaging. Period. No possible way for that much water to enter the engine interior without leaving a sign otherwise. The question is, who packaged the engine? A lot of the stuff sold by Summit, Jegs etc are third party orders, Summit takes the order and forwards it to GM who then packages and ships the item. If this is the case then it is on GM, if Summit maintains an inventory in their own warehouse then it is on them. If the wood shows water staining or was damp on arrival, then maybe the shipper, but even then if the engine was properly wrapped that much water could not have invaded it under any normal reasonable circumstances.
     
  12. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,347

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    An Aussie friend gifted me a 283 here in California. Low mileage '64 truck engine was in a '56 Chevy Bel Air that was purchased in Sacramento, driven down to Atwater (120 miles) where we removed engine, car was to get shipped to O-Z: the Bel Air would be 'containered' in Long Beach, and 'Bon Voyage'.
    I cleaned up my new acquisition, and installed it in my clean F-1 pickup, then placed F-1 alongside my shop.
    Engine was dry, and plastic sealed, with shipping tape.
    Busy as I get, 5 months later I opened the hood and cut the plastic off. Just happened to pull the dipstick, and there was WATER and rust.
    Opened the drain plug and about a gallon of clean water drained out.
    I had had the pan off, cleaned it all out...then where did the water come from??? Yard is safe, my large Lab Annie is not 'friendly' to visitors.
    Still mysterious.
    Engine is now in my shop, with the Hemis, Oldses, and BBF's. SAFE!
     
    Lil32 likes this.
  13. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,705

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Probably too late now but I would take a sample of the water and have it annualized at the water department. They should be able to tell if it was rain water, floodwater or treated drinking water.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  14. WiredSpider
    Joined: Dec 29, 2012
    Posts: 758

    WiredSpider
    Member

    Pete
    Sorry for your troubles
    It,s bad enough that you get screwed with the shipping,exchange rate,customs etc,etc
    But to finally get your engine and it is shit.is really screwed up
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  15. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 7,868

    5window
    Member

    As has been pointed out
    I don't think this would help, nor do I think a municipal government would have the resources they'd expend to do the work. Not quite like CSI where they'd analyze diatoms and radionucleotides and then find the exact tap it came from. With Summit only responsible to the original destination (friend) and, possibly, multiple shippers and handling until it reached the OP,and unexamined packaging on arrival (no blame, just what it is)- this is a bad nightmare that will only end by moving on.
     
  16. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,705

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    My son lives in Las Vegas and the County health department will check his well water for free and give him a breakdown of whats in it. Probably standard procedure for any health department.
    You can also go to places like Home Depot that sell water purification systems and they will check your water for free also.
     
  17. OP had a friend in the USA receive the engine.At that point Summit considers it delivered.It then got reshipped.Summit had no control over the engine after that.A lot of it is toast,but I bet a lot can be taken apart,and cleaned.
     
    Tman likes this.
  18. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 7,868

    5window
    Member

    Yeah, I used to do municipal water and wastewater treatment before I switched to veterinary medicine (still stuff going in and stuff coming out). They'll check for hardness and iron and bacteria (coliforms) but they're not going to give you anything that would help identify where the water came from.
     
  19. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,303

    Budget36
    Member

    @striper I think you said there was no intake on the engine? I rewatched the first video and the rust on the heads looks like in a few spots where water may have sat on an intake manifold. Also odd how just the top of the intake side of the heads have the rust Makes me scratch my head
     
  20. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,628

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Taking a look at you first video again perhaps a reverse electrolysis treatment would take care of the heads. I'll take another look at the second video but how bad was the rust when you removed the pan? If the water stayed below the crank it may be ok. Or perhaps a new set of con and main bearings a a crank polish...

    Looks like no rust above the baffle... clean or get new oil pump, clean pan and you may be good to go!
     
    5window likes this.
  21. hotrodlane
    Joined: Oct 18, 2009
    Posts: 199

    hotrodlane
    Member

    Ok I did not read all the comments so forgive me if I am repeating what someone has already said. But at this point If no one is going to step up and take care of this. Since they want to play that game, How did you pay for it? check with your bank or charge company and see what you can do to protect yourself from the item not being what it was supposed to be. If no luck there and you are stuck with it, Take your lesson and clean it up and run it. I had a 331 caddy engine that was stuck and had more water damage than that. I got it free and turning and lubed it up and run it. That was 8 years ago and it still runs good today.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  22. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,794

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Gimpy, you "liked" post #111 and I agree with his comments on how to deal with it now that it has turned out the way it has.
    But his first sentence turns me off totally! Nobody, but Nobody should comment on a thread they haven't real ALL the posts and comments. Maybe I'm being hypercritical, but that's my pet peeve.
     
    Lil32 and 55 Ford Gasser like this.
  23. flatheadv8s
    Joined: Mar 24, 2007
    Posts: 5

    flatheadv8s
    Member
    from australia

    Some overseas shippers couldn't give a stuff. All they are interested in is loading and shipping. There are some very rough shipping agents out there and they couldn't care less about your stuff sitting outside until they are packed and shipped. I wonder if that pallet with the engine on was switched. I've had parts stolen from a shipping agency while awaiting to be packed in the container. No recourse, all care but NO responsibility. My advice, buy a rebuildable engine in OZ and have it built here then you have some comeback. I cant see how GM could be held responsible as it really has nothing to do with them. Best of luck with your rebuild
     
    Lil32 and dirty old man like this.
  24. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,885

    Clik
    Member

    If it ships by boat it sits at a dock. All docks are at sea-level. Anything at sea-level is prone to high tides and flooding. Sherlock Holmes says the shipper got ya NOT Summit or GM.
     
    Lil32 likes this.

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