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Suicide rear doors on 4-doors: how?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ned Ludd, May 15, 2010.

  1. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,790

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Erwin made the following suggestion on my Morris Minor wheel thread (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469283), and I find myself liking the idea more and more:

    Thanks, Erwin.

    This raises a technical problem, however. On very many four-doors, including the four-door Minor, the length of vertical jamb on the C-pillar is much shorter than that on the B-pillar, so the upper and lower fulcra of the hinging have to be a lot closer together. This, together with the dog-legged shape of the rear doors placing their centre of gravity somewhat forwards of centre, means that the stress in the hinges and adjacent jambs is several times what it is in a conventional B-pillar situation. On the Minor I estimate at least six times the stress.

    Off the top of my head I can think of a solution that involves bolt-on rear stub axles and hubs off a front-drive hatchback, bolted vertically to pads on top of the rear wheel arches: obviously it'd need fitting and measuring and thinking-through and fabricating.

    But what of prior art? Has anyone any experience with suicided rear doors?

    And what about old customs from the Golden Age? I know the rear doors of four-doors were occasionally reversed. Any pics?
     
  2. doctorZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,243

    doctorZ
    Member

    i always just assumed it was done by not only bracing the inside of the door around the hinges, but also the pillar of the body. perhaps also use later model hinges?
     
  3. doctorZ
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 1,243

    doctorZ
    Member

    i always just assumed it was done by not only bracing the inside of the door around the hinges, but also the pillar of the body. perhaps also use later model hinges?
     
  4. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,790

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    bttt

    Thanks, drZ.

    Anyone else? How was it done?
     
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  5. Frenchy32
    Joined: Dec 21, 2006
    Posts: 288

    Frenchy32
    Member
    from arizona


    Here are a few pictures of my 4 door with rear suicide doors.

    Thanks
    Frenchy
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,790

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Thanks, Frenchy.

    Those Toyopets came out with suicide rear doors, didn't they?
    [​IMG]
    so the C-pillar would've been designed with enough distance between the hinges. On your second pic I can see what look like hinges: what is that, about 8-9" between them? I've barely got 6" of jamb overall on the Morris!
     
  7. Frenchy32
    Joined: Dec 21, 2006
    Posts: 288

    Frenchy32
    Member
    from arizona

    The picture of the Toyopet you are showing is a 1959 and is the other Toyopet I found in Sacramento the same style and same colour the one you are showing is in the Museum in Japan. I do not want to talk to much about Toyota or any other foreign car as someone told me that Ryan does'n care for this type of posting LOL. If you need more pictures I have them let me know.

    Thanks
    Frenchy
     
  8. godspeedbear
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 261

    godspeedbear
    Member
    from golden

    I do them on late models... I build a heavy hinge, looks like a "L" using a 1/2 in hinge pin.... I'll have to get some pics....
     
  9. godspeedbear
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 261

    godspeedbear
    Member
    from golden

    I use most of the stock parts just swap them side to side.. build a box for the latch (if thre's not enough room because of the window) and like I said build a large hinge out of 1/2 in thick material w/ heavy hinge pin... here's pics for the idea.
    DSC01174.jpg

    DSC01175.jpg

    DSC01176.JPG
     
  10. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,790

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Thanks godspeedbear

    How deep is that hinge, about 3"?
     
  11. godspeedbear
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 261

    godspeedbear
    Member
    from golden

    The himge needs to be as deep as the body is thick.. If the body is 6" thick, then the hinge is 6". It also helps to work it out on card board..
    Untitled.png
    Also push the pivot pin back away fron the edge as far as you can.. a good starting point is 6" deep then 6" back, 4" deep then 4" back, you get the idea

    Then you can work out clearances before you cut.... The base in the body can be 3x3 or 4x4 retangle tube.. use brass bushings where ever you can.
     
  12. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,790

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Thanks, godspeedbear, and thanks for the sketch.

    Do you always put the pivot in the body? OEM set-ups have the pivot in the door, but then the cut-line is worked out accordingly. The Morris's trailing-edge cut line looks about right on the face of it, but I can see that it won't be on a lot of cars. It makes for an effectively slightly shorter door, and a bit less moment on the hinge, but it'd also mean recessing the jamb where the trailing edge has to go into the body, and generally there'd be less space to work with. What do you think?
     
  13. godspeedbear
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 261

    godspeedbear
    Member
    from golden

    Could work.... I have made doors open like factory, with the door edge 'curving in', but I had to rework the door jam to make it work properly. It just became easier to pivot in the body.
     

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