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Suicide Frontends Cool or Not?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by LesIsMore, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. LesIsMore
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 449

    LesIsMore
    Member
    from Ohio

    Lately I have been seeing a bunch of suicide front ends, many with the spring perches attached through a hole in side of the wishbone, is this a new practice and is it technically sound? Or has it been around awhile and I never noticed how common it was? Seems like this is being used on alot of the spring forward setups, lopped off the hangers and relocated here instead of doing spring over with new perches and all. Doesnt look bad and would consider it for my upcoming project. You guys have some thoughts?
     
  2. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 8,063

    5window
    Member

    It does look cool in most situations. I am not sure it is rally technically sound and it's not call a "suicide" without reason. Any REAL suspension gurus commenting?
     
  3. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,501

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    Cool ????????????????

    who cares if its what you want ,thats all that matters
     

  4. Lucky77
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,489

    Lucky77
    Member

    I've got a suicide setup on my sedan and I've been driving it for a year and a half now. I think it looks cool but I probably won't build another one. In fact when I get around to building another chassis for this thing I'm going to put the axle back where it belongs. Last fall one of the spring perches that mount the spring to the batwings (spring behind axle) snapped as I went over a railroad track. That setup and the one you mentioned both place the spring pivot in a shear position.

    Lucky for me I slowed way down for the tracks as my car is only 5" off the ground. After it broke the chassis was almost scraping the pavement and the end of the leaf spring and remnants of the shackle were about an inch off the ground. If that had happened at a high rate of speed (Like the 70-80 mph I was doing on I-80 the week before during the Hunnert Car Pileup weekend) I hate to even consider the results.

    If you do go the perch through the bones route, I hope you sleeve the hole and it goes through both sides of the bone. My car weighs 2440 lbs with me and a full load of fuel which isn't much until I look at the entire weight of the car resting on those two sideways spring perches sitting in the batwings. Just something to think about, good luck with your project. Here's what my heap looks like with the suicide front end.
     

    Attached Files:

    MarkS1975 likes this.
  5. Structural soundness is dubious, and they are ugly. It does work well for those rat rodders who think 150" is good wheelbase for a model A. For the rest of us building cars like they did in the 50s and 60s, the way henry set them up is just fine.
     
  6. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,185

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Lately?
     
  7. LesIsMore
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 449

    LesIsMore
    Member
    from Ohio

    Yeah "lately" quite a few build threads we have been seeing on here have this setup.

    See Below:

    We split the wishbone on the front axle which we got from Kwmpa (thanks Kev!) And with lots of heat and a big ford tool (hammer) everything was freed up.
    [​IMG]
    A deal was also struck for a restored '37 banjo rear with tall "hot rod" gears. A model a coupe rear spring had 3 leaves removed and was installed on the rear with a 3" spacer. I set up the front end with a model A spring hung from the wishbones and some juice brakes were scored at the Jalopy Showdown Swap. I installed a few gussets and rolled it out of the garage to take a look. Obviously, at this point the rear suspension is not complete and the front is just mocked up.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. roddinron
    Joined: May 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,677

    roddinron
    Member

    I have never thought it was "cool" to depend on just 2 bolts to hold up the entire front end of a car. I think if you're going to use such an arrangement it would be much better to drill the bones vertically, sleeve it, and mount the perch under or over the bones, at least that way they're not mounted in shear.
    And, they're not called suicide for nothing, if anything breaks in the above picture that frame will be on the ground, the only safe way to build a front end is to have that axle under the frame.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  9. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,501

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    This is where I see this set up used most
    [​IMG]
     
  10. dirty petcock
    Joined: Oct 9, 2005
    Posts: 287

    dirty petcock
    Member

    mine work fine, I think my wheel base is like 3.5 or 4" longer than stock
     

    Attached Files:

  11. dirty petcock
    Joined: Oct 9, 2005
    Posts: 287

    dirty petcock
    Member

    woops wrong pictures. Cool or not? I like it. It's a way to lower the front of your car almost 4" without a dropped Axel. If you do end up doing it, drill the hole into as much as the cast end as you can. That will make it much stronger. and and don't forget to use a sleeve, and spend some time getting your caster where you want it. Once you weld it that's it. Good luck -Jeremy
     

    Attached Files:

  12. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,732

    the-rodster
    Member

    That's what I did.
     
  13. NOT COOL.

    But if you feel you have too use such a set up listen to Ron's words of wisdom above.
    Doc.
     
  14. bigfive
    Joined: Oct 3, 2003
    Posts: 648

    bigfive
    Member
    from south L.A.

    i hate them..... but im building one now on my modified. haha... i just hate when they kick out really far. makes the whole car look too long.
     
  15. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,185

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    I guess that the term lately is relative. That set up is nothing new. We've been seeing it all along...
     
  16. hrm2k
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 3,696

    hrm2k
    Member

    I haven't had any problem with mine and I think the look is great


    [​IMG]
     
  17. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The suicide front end has been around since the days of the Model T.
    When using Ford through-the-axle-style perches use FORD perches, forged original perches.
    When using Ford T-style short bolt perches in shear use only FORD forged original perches, you won't snap one of those unless you have them loose in the hole for a couple of years.
     
  18. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,501

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    Those are some nice size slicks ,,who makes em ??
    [​IMG]
     
  19. model-a-fan
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 842

    model-a-fan
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I have it on my "31 sedan with no problems. I personally really dig the look.

    Thinking of switching to a Mustang II set-up. (just kidding)
     
  20. no idea... i ran across the car in the classifieds the other day here on the HAMB
     
  21. LesIsMore
    Joined: Apr 8, 2008
    Posts: 449

    LesIsMore
    Member
    from Ohio

    Sounds like we are split, I am still on the fence. post pics if you have one, like to see the various executions.
     
  22. ukgav
    Joined: Jun 16, 2008
    Posts: 317

    ukgav
    Member

    My 32 pick up has the perches through the wishbones. The truck was put together by Limeworks and the bones were sleeved all the way through. I personally love the look as removing the frame horns tidies the front end up in my opinion.
    I have given it some serious abuse for about a year now and have no worries about the structural integrity of this set up.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. not that this has a suicide f/e... but as much as i really do like this car... and i really do like this car... i do not like how high the radiator and shell sit above the cowl line...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    now this one... this is one is really something else that's definitely not for me...
    [​IMG]
     
  24. B-Ray
    Joined: Apr 11, 2008
    Posts: 194

    B-Ray
    Member

    I think I just threw up in my mouth a little from that last one
     
  25. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 8,063

    5window
    Member

    I don't know. It looks like they're ready to mount a snow plow on it.
     
  26. scarylarry
    Joined: Apr 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,545

    scarylarry
    Member

  27. On the little green roadster above it looks like the spring perch would land on the axle and might keep the frame off the ground. I'd call it a bulldog front end not a suicide. Whatever you call it, I like it, especially that grill shell insert
     
  28. Oldkrow
    Joined: Aug 28, 2008
    Posts: 170

    Oldkrow
    Member

    i like them both traditional, and suicide. both have there place in the hot rod world. but just because its low and stretched doesn't make it a rat rod.
     

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