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Studebaker 289 speed parts?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by DocsMachine, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Just bought me a couple of Studebaker engines. One is a completly rebuilt 259 but not all put together yet and a 232 that need rebuilding. Wonder if i could do something with the HP on them. The 232 also included a set of 0,60 oversize Pistons. Does heads from a 259/289 do any good on a 232? Dont know much about Studebaker engines. Had a 289 a couple of years ago that was souped up. Compression on it was from 9,8-10,3. Saddly i sold it because i was out of a job
     
  2. Gary Schweik
    Joined: Jan 26, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Gary Schweik

     
  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Now that I have seen Jack Vines method of finding an intake with about the correct port spacing. Cutting off the flange that bolts to the hear. Cutting out a flange with the correct thickness, angle, and bolt hole location and welding it to the doner intake. Seems doable.
     
    stillrunners likes this.
  4. Gary Schweik
    Joined: Jan 26, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Gary Schweik

    Hey Rich I name is Gary I’ve been surfing the web and I came across a couple articles on adopting a mechanical fuel injection on a Studebaker 289 I have a 64 Studebaker avanti and like to Customize it i like to try to put a Hilburn fuel mechanicalI could really use some input on how To get this project started appreciate it
    Thanks
    Gary
     
  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Here are some pictures of a Packard that I put Pontiac Hilborn injection on and a Lincoln with SBC injectors. I would think a used SBC manifold would be cheapest to start from. Cut it apart like I did the Lincoln unit. See what is the best way to bolt it down. Adapters or redrilling the intake. Next you need to make a pump mount and drive. It's just fooling around with stuff until you make it fit. Injection 001.JPG Linc Inj1 002.JPG img66.JPG
     
    oldtymehiboy, Gary Schweik and 51box like this.
  6. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,269

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :D Very interesting thread.Thanks for posting.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
  7. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,439

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    There a guy on the Stude Racing site that's made some adapters to bolt a small Chevy manifold to a Stude engine.
    http://www.racingstudebakers.com/foo/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3336
    I have a set, very nicely done.

    There's also a guy that modifies Small Chrysler manifolds to bolt to a Stude engine.
    http://www.racingstudebakers.com/foo/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2266
    I have two of these. Well done, but need some interior port finish work to flow well.

    Now to Rich Fox's exhaust work.
    Rich - despite the Siamesed center port...the exhaust side of the Stude head flows "plenty" well enough with little work required. There's zero need to do much more than a good cleaning (NOT enlarging) of the exhaust. A bit of work should go into reshaping the inner center divider, but that's about it. It's also best to leave the "smaller" stock valve in place rather than going to the larger R3 valve.
    It's the intake side that's the hangup in the Stude head. If you want to make power, you need three things - an intake port that flows about 210+cfm (at .50" lift), an intake manifold to match (see above), and...a cam shaft. I had a bunch of roller cams made a coupla years ago, and sold over 20 of them. All made to the buyers request. That deal is done though. One needs to find a way to get a cam "outside" of the original Stude reground specs. available currently. The R2+ cam is...ok, but to make real power, it's not sufficient.

    I also had an adjustable gear drive made for the Stude engine...that deal is also complete. When one starts building custom cams, one NEEDS to be able to adjust the cam timing to get the best power of an unknown cam. So I worked with a builder and we came up with a nice adjustable drive assembly, I sold 17 of those, (kept a couple for myself..!).

    The adapters noted above, will allow the small Chevy's Hilborn fuel injection plate to be used. You just need to realize that the Stude engine is a small engine, so smaller butterflys should be used rather than the larger sizes of most used today.

    Mike
     
    stillrunners likes this.




  8. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    I have had Studebaker guys tell me that the siamesed exhaust port has no effect so many times I wish i had a dollar for each time I heard it. And I am sure they can prove it on a flow bench. But a flow bench is not the real world. There must be some reason that later design V8 and inline engines did away with siamesed ports. And long tube headers are found on many race cars. My thought is that exhaust reversion between adjacent cylinders dilutes the intake charge and may cause cross firing on supercharged engines. I made some money filling the exhaust heat riser ports on several Chrysler hemi heads for fuel racers who had found this to be the case through real world experience. Seperating the exhaust ports on a Stude isn't easy and may not be something many or any would be willing to do. But for me it was worth the effort and I am sure didn't hurt. However, let me be clear. This was not my idea. I was telling Zenon about the raised port plates I cut some b0ss 352 heads for that were for a Jr Fuel car. Then I did the same without a kit for a '68 GTO motor. Zenon said we could do the same to a Stude head. I said no. So he brought me a head and explained his idea. And I did it. Seemed to work. Then he cut the intake side all up. Made sheet metal port for it. Flowed like mad, but I don't know how he will ever do 8 ports the same. Keep it from leaking and make a mainafold and valve covers for it. Maybe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    stillrunners likes this.
  10. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,439

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Rich -

    This is a small engine. The existing ports are actually too large percentage wise compared to the intake. They flow plenty well enough as is (with "little" modification required). As for any contamination...that's a problem caused by the cam...NOT the heads..!
    There is too much "real world, on track", by long time Stude racers, evidence saying that yes...there is NO performance gain by splitting the center.
    Also...have you looked at the firing order vs. the center port...again, no problem, those cylinders don't fire against each other !

    You're barken up the wrong tree...but, it is your tree, your money, so, by all means, have at it.

    Mike

    Just remembered, my dad used to make a big deal out of the exhaust side also. I proved him wrong, on track, his heads vs. mine on the same car..!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  11. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    No money involved. Just chips. Zenon bought his own milling machine. Took his Studebaker and went home. We will see if anything else ever gets done with that motor. If Zenon ever gets his magic intake ports to actually work, your entire premise concerning intake to exhaust goes out the window.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  12. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,439

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Ha...funny comment..!

    It's NOT a premise...it's proven fact. Every competition cylinder head designed today (and OEM for that matter) for ANY type racing uses a very similar specific percentage of intake to exhaust ratio port flow.
    You should do some homework on the subject..! Actually pretty interesting, the whole history of how the current numbers came to be used...by anyone wanting to go fast anyway.
    And this (the ratio is very similar) works in pressurized or naturally aspirated combinations.

    Mike
     
  13. People used to send us different manifolds and cams to test at the track.
    People would praise us when we said something worked well, and curse at us when we said certain things didn't.
    Caddys had to have zig zag in the end ports to line up.
    Mopar adapted still had bends in the flow, changing cross-section, and lost enough low end to slow down a drag car.
    The only BEST manifolds that gave us the best times were home made tunnel ram style with a straight shot down the raised intake ports.
    The exh center port siamesing was mitigated by the way we reshaped them and made 3 dimensional header plates for the 4 tube headers.
    I agree that the ex valves and ports, although they may not be the best, are decent enough to not be a priority while there is so much else to refine with better returns.




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    WHY BE ORDINARY ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  14. DEEPNHOCK
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 313

    DEEPNHOCK
    Member

    I'll build you what you want in a Stude intake.... Or CNC ported Stude cylinder heads

    [​IMG]

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  15. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    But if Zenon's intake ports actually work, the exhaust needs to change too. I am aware that there is an intake to exhaust ratio that has proven to work over time. But you are not allowing for the head being cut up and the sheet metal ports that Zenon made. Zenon got that head from Jack Vines and brought it over here because I have a mill. I did the exhaust side because I had done port plates before. Then Zenon did the intake side because he knew what he wanted to do. Then he sent it back to Jack, who sent it to somebody in Portland that has a flow bench and Studebaker experience. That guy seemed to think the intake was outstanding. He didn't test the exhaust as everyone knows it wont help. But if the intake improved that much the exhaust needs to play along. I don't care. I will never have a Stude engine running in a race car. I did run that Packard in my Bonneville car for two years. Never expected to be competitive. Just wanted to take it out and run it. I'm to old to worry about records now. I did that when I was younger. . Didn't really read much at the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    stillrunners likes this.
  16. Wow....Stude battles....yeah....some bodies care......!
     
  17. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    No battle. Just a normal discussion with an engineer. I used to do it all the time at work, But that was 20 years ago. Kind of out of practice. i really like DEEPINHOCKs work.
     
  18. DEEPNHOCK
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 313

    DEEPNHOCK
    Member

    The Stude crowd is fairly small, and once you immerse yourself in it, you can't get the smell off.
    There is a phrase often used in the Stude world...
    An acronym.... CASO

    That stands for Cheap Ass Stude Owner

    Studebaker never was the leader in automotive production.
    They generally built the working man car. Thrifty, and somewhat mundane.
    When the company stopped building cars (They did not go bust), the parts were mostly saved.
    So, for the first decade or so after production stopped, Stude owners strived to keep their Stude's running.
    The early Stude orphans motto was "We'd Rather Fix Than Switch".
    The thrifty nature continues to this day.
    And so does the sentiment. Few parts are made. Not enough mass to tool up.
    So... The stubborn make stuff. Sometimes good stuff. Sometimes strange stuff.
    You see it all the time with Stude guys. My stuff is worth gold prices. Your stuff is scrap metal.
    Yeah... He's a CASO....
     
    egads likes this.
  19. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Speaking of cheap Studebaker people. Several years ago I bought a 63 Lark with an OHV6 and 3 speed. Not being a Stude guy I went to the 383SBC, 4 speed, 9 inch right away. So I still have a '63 OHV Stude six and three speed sitting under the tree out back. Anyone who wants one for their collection is welcome to it. Will help load. Picture of Lark and stable mate leaving for down under attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. DEEPNHOCK
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 313

    DEEPNHOCK
    Member

    If you really want to get the exhaust out... Just let it out..Let it out any open hole you find.:cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Easy to see that this engine was not built by an ME. Otherwise he would have known to forgo the headers and pipe from the heat riser port. OEM iron exhaust manifolds would be fine, due to the inherent restriction of the intake tract. 20 pounds of boost not withstanding.
     
    oldfordtin likes this.
  22. DEEPNHOCK
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 313

    DEEPNHOCK
    Member

    Yup. Easy to see. Easy to understand why, too.

     
  23. Been driving mostly Stude V/8 's in my Studebakers since 1974....had a big 6 and little 6 as well in some trucks....although I bought some factory SBC mounts - the 65/66 - the old Stude motors don't give up easy. I enjoy the discussion and what y'all have accomplished with these little motors !
     
  24. Gary Schweik
    Joined: Jan 26, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Gary Schweik

    Rich - good information, thank you very much!
     

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