Technical Stuck banjo and a few other banjo related questions

I picked up a 37-38 ford banjo rear yesterday. Upon getting it home and putting it on pipe jacks in my yard/work space it tilted down and immediately started leaking water and I got the torque tube off and put a pair of my biggest channel locks on it and it won't turn. What can I do to unstick it? Also, as we all know the 37-38 rear has the sprin perch on the housin end, that will push my rear end several inches too far forward, since it looks like I'm rebuilding anyways is there a good reason I can't install the bells upside down and run the spring in front of the axle? I plan to run a Speedwat medium arch rear spring, although it appears a 36-39 spring (possibly other years but I don't know) should work just fine as well. There was also no pin in the driveshaft coupler, and it appears to be a 10 spline, nor does it appear there is any hole for 1. Should I go ahead and dril this when my open drive kit gets here? I'm also missing the keys for the rear hubs (as well as a set if hubs, but I have a set of 38-39 wide 5 hubs found), does anyone have the dimensions on these? I have been told the keys were 1 of the week links in these rear ends, so I would like to just make my own and harden them. Also, as I know apparently am amassing spare parts I will not use, hoe do I go about posting a classified ad?

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The keys will not be the weak link if the tapered hubs are fitted and torqued correctly.

 

Posting on the classifieds is just like posting on the regular board. The only things are no replies by other than the original poster are permitted and you must post pricing for your item for sale

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For some reason it won't let me post from tapatalk or the HAMB app

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You posted ZERO information about what style of car you're building or even the year so no one can tell you whether a Spring ahead will be workable or not. The usually look good on track style roadsters

Speedway has keys as do many of the vintage Ford suppliers

 

It's a 27 T touring. Fenderless. And going to to run a 30" tall rear tire, and a 26" front, front suspension is a suicide setup with a stock A axle and stock A spring.

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If it was full of water, and you can't spin it, there is no unsticking it. you have to take the entire rear completely apart. Look at all the pieces very carefully. No doubt you will need all new bearings but the axles may be so rusted that the spider gears on the end are shot as well as the carrier, and the ring and pinion. you need to break it all the way down and inspect it all. you may be better off with another banjo all together.

There are plenty of these out there still, so finding one where you just need to put seals and bearings in it is not that hard. Also look at the hub races at the ends of the axle. if they are worn and gouged, then those will need to be repaired.

If it looks like it is savable and you want to rebuild it, take it completely apart, pressure wash all the the funk out of the torque tube and axle bells, and see if you can find a machine shop that will soak them in their hot tank for awhile. you have to get any and all rust out of the inside of it, other wise you can end up with rust flakes in the oil and that will kill you bearings in no time.

 

I had planned on a complete rebuild when I got it. But it does have the 3.78:1 rear gears. Which is a plus. I'm running a stockish 292 Chevy 6 cylinder and a 700R4 (MAYBE 200hp, all I've done to it is convert froma 1bbl to 2 1bbls, and split the exhaust manifold) so I figure that would give me a good cruising ratio on the freeway and decent enough fuel economy (I plan to actually drive the thing). Is there anything in particular I need to look for aside from pitted races (the mechanical brake backing plates are still on it as I haven't started tearing it down yet because I'm in the middle of an attempted mock up)? And is there a manual or something on rebuilding these things? This is honestly the first Banjo rear end I have ever even seen in person.

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And is there any way to clean up the gears? Maybe soda blasting?

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Sounds like you better get it apart first be for you ask a bunch of questions.

 

Have to post ads from a computer; phone won't work.

 

Gotcha

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If the gears are rusty you might as well replace them. They will be rough and wear, do a complete rebuild or find another rear end.

 

Full of water and stuck; usually means pitted gears. Hope you get lucky.

If you want to put the spring in front, you need to switch bells side to side, not upside down.

But; if the bearing surface is pitted on the bottom; but OK on top, you can turn them upside down; but will need to make new spring hangers.

A '35 up spring does not have enough arch to run in front of the axle.

 

I honestly don't know yet. Right now I'm mocking things up. And since nobody has said whether or not I can flip the tubes I guess I'm gonna have to just do it. I figure I can get pinion angke set and brake lines bent while I wait on my open drive kit. When it gets here I'll just slap it on and finalize it. All the while picking up bearings and gaskets for the rebuild. Which keads me to my next question, does anyone have the Timken part numbers for all of the bearings in a Banjo from pinion all the way out to the wheel bearings?

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Nkw this is useful information. Do I need any special tools to pull the bells?

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Pulling the hubs off the axles is the biggest chalange. It takes a special puller. Maybe someone near will do it for you. There was a thread years ago on making one from pipe and stuff. Excellent design. There are cheap ones on the Bay. I have one and it has worked well for me.
Pulling the torque tube starts at the transmission end. There is snap ring holding the speedo gear and bearing. Get it off and pull the bolts on the other end. The tube will come off then.

 

Tube is already off and I dont have hubs in hand yet. This is how it sits as of right this very second. Pictures kinda suck bit it's 4:30pm in Texas

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The cost of rebuilding that rear will be much more than buying a better condition used one.
Don't waste your time and money.

 

I was planning to rebuimd whatever I ended up with anyways

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Here are some bearing numbers; courtesy of deuce roadster on the Ford Barn:
Pinion race ('35-'48) 27820D
Pinion bearing ('35-'48) 27880 2 required
Carrier bearing ('37-'48) 25578 2 required
Carrier race ('37-'48) 25522 2 required
Pinion pilot bearing ('33-'48) Bower R-1304-BF

Best to go with good used or NOS Ford wheel bearings; guys report
that the cages have been soft and wear rapidly on the imported repops.

Don't scrap the banjo bolts because they unscrew hard all the way; they are
a special tight fit to prevent grease seepage.

 

Again, more useful information. Thank you sir. You don't by chance have a part number for wheel bearings do you? I found a complete gasket kit on ebay (sold by speedway) for $28 and are those part numbers Ford or Timken?

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George, Don't let your emotions outweigh logic.
Be sure to write down every penny you spend on repairing that rear.
It will be interesting to see.

 

I figure around $200 I made a deal with the local machine shop and I no longer pay for machine work if it happens to need inserts.

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Like several have already said it needs to come apart. Water damage or lack of will make your decision for you.

 

I am going out to the yard as soon as I finish this cup of coffee to flip my bells around and put eyes on my gears. It looks like I need to pull my backing plates, and obviously the bolts between the center and the bells, but do the bells just slide off from there?

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Also are the bolts around the center all the same and interchangeable from side to side? IE, can I put them in a coffee can while I tear this thing down.

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Yes you can just remove the bolts from the large side of the bells and slide the bells off. The bolts are the same. DO NOT retap the bolts or holes, as they are a tight tolerance and will leak more if you tap them.

As for the perches, search for a thread by Chris on his A coupe, or maybe it was his A roadster. He cut the ends/perches off his old A axle and used them on a 40ish axle. Was an ingenious idea and slick as whale snot. If I ever do an A I will be doing his method.

I don't know why your pinion doesn't have a hole for the coupler's pin. How else would the driveshaft stay on? Maybe the pin is actually broken off in there and doesn't show through grease and grime?

 

Here is an article that will answer your questions. It is about a model A banjo, but the basics are the same as V8.

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...rential-Rear-End-Restoration-Revised-2014.pdf

John

 

I actually found that article after I started this thread and printed it out. Very good information there.

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