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strange starting issues

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MarkKoch, May 30, 2010.

  1. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Car(48 chevrolet stylemaster) started went for a drive within a few minutes it was breaking up,made it home,shut car of,would not restart-no juice to turn it over.Checked battery on charger,it read that it was over charged(weird).Put it back in and it started.Went for another drive-same thing happened.Replaced voltage regulator started rite up(I polarized it once installed)-went for another drive.Didn't make it home this time.Car died and winded up getn a jump and the car started and I made it home from there.At the moment its 6 volt with a 8 volt in there now(Ive just read that thats nit good and will pick up a 6 volt tomorrow).There is no ignition lock,someone just wired in a switch.Could this be wired in wrong?Could it be the 8 volt battery?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  2. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Any body have any info on this?
     
  3. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Try replacing the condensor and or coil. 8 volt battery is not going to charge unless the regulator is setup higher. Yes your battery charge would say over charge if set on 6 volt setting. Get thee the 6 volt battery back inthere and see how it goes then.
     
  4. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,181

    wvenfield
    Member

    I agree with the idea of starting from scratch and getting the 6 volt battery. A proper 6 volt system working correctly will easily start the car every time.

    Cables are very important on a 6 volt system. I always used 00 gauge. You need to get the battery right and then work backwards.
     

  5. Billet
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 275

    Billet
    Member

    Mark,
    I don't know what's up with your charging problem but I know that your battery has 2 volts per cell- count the cells (caps) on the top of your battery multiply by 2 and you have the battery voltage. The batteries potential might read 6.6 volts but it's a 6 volt battery. More than and voodoo it's more than likely poor connections. Check the charging rate at the battery while running. Clean the connections and check the ground.
    Good Luck
     
  6. Billet
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 275

    Billet
    Member

    Double entry- Sorry
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  7. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Wanted to update where I'm at with this.Installed new voltage regulator(polarized it,per instructions that came w/ it).Installed new wires from generator to regulator keeping same size.Installed new 6v battery with a new ground wire.Heres what the readings are at voltage regulator on battery post it reads between 7-8volts.At the actual battery it reads 6 then goes up to 7 or 8 when rpms increase. The battery gage in the car reads in the middle at idle and goes to the plus at higher rpms,sometimes as far as it can go in the plus side,sometimes actually staying there for a bit after rpm`s are down. With the lights on while running at idle its slightly in the negative side, goes to the plus side when rpm`s increase.Now the car will start,hopefully ready for another test drive when the rain stops
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  8. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Yep everything sounds normal now. Only sugestion is use 2-O battery cables if you already haven't and run the ground to the engine. Getting plenty of amps to the starter is everything on a 6-V system.
     
  9. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Well made it out for a test drive and about 1/8 mile later she dies again,tried charging the battery(w/it disconnected from my car) with another vehicle.I almost made it home,died again(had to toe it from there)I will replace the cables w/ the size you mention(i think the ground I baught is 4-0)When I finally made it home, I checked the battery it was completely dead(a new battery).Got the car running a Little later and voltage from generator is 6/7 volt at idle but when you give it some throttle it drops to 2/3 volts.I'm guessing its time for new brushes,a generator or should I do a 6v alternator?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  10. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Take the generator to a automotive electrical shop/rebuilder and get it checked out before going any further. Generators are rather simple but you have to know how to test them. Best thing you can do is buy a "motor's" manual from the 50s ,those have all the info you will need working on older cars.
     
  11. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I have one book from 1949 but is very vague,Not very in depth at all.I think it just tries to cover all makes and models for ten years and there isn't much room left for detailed info like I need.I will get the book you mentioned.Really appreciate you response and taking the time-Thanks John Evens
     
  12. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I actually do have the book you mentioned and found the info I need,lots of charts to show correct voltage,just trying to make sense if it all and avoid making a mistake.I did purchase new brushes for the generator(will be in wed from napa).Will try that,the ones I took off looked really worn.The fact that at higher rpm the voltage at the generator dropped to 2-3 makes It know theres a problem there.It should be at 30 amps and 8.0 volts at 1750rpm`s.According to the chart.I'm starting to get it.This is all new.But I'm getn it
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  13. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,544

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    Probably not what's making it die............ Even if the battery is low enough it won't crank it after it stalls. I would look for a loose connection, or a hot wire hanging that might be grounding out and killing the power to the coil as the reason it's dying.
     
  14. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Mark: 8 volts and 30 amps is max output for that particular generator. Depending on the state of battery charge rpm etc it can be less.
     
  15. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I pulled the generator apart and the commutator is worn a bit ,mainly glazed over by the left over material from the brushes.There was absolutely no mica showing in between the segments.Cleaned the commutator and undercut the mica as described in "motors auto repair book".John thanks for the info ....29Nash I have a complete wiring diagram for my car I will go through and check every thing.Whats strange is that in my drive way it does fine never kills the battery but under load it dies.I will keep you posted.Once again thanks fellas
     
  16. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I did notice today that there is one of those quick connects in line on one of the wires to the coil.I will do away with that and solder the connection and then use some heat shrinking tubing on it.
     
  17. has a similar problem in my '41 for a while-checked everything. finally found a problem with the distributor. put in petronix-no probs.
     
  18. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    When the car is running Ive noticed a tail light stays on.With out the running lights on ,or the break applied.Could a hot wire grounding cause this to happen and be my problem.I know these probably sound like stupid questions.I just don't have any knowledge on electrical problems and there solutions---thanks Nash
     
  19. medicinal_marinara
    Joined: Nov 24, 2009
    Posts: 139

    medicinal_marinara
    Member
    from Oregon

    Sounds like you have some wiring problems for sure.

    The regulator should have a cutout that opens at about 30 amps to protect the generator This might be why you aren't charging- you have a short or a heavy draw somewhere. The generator is working fine, but the load is above 30 amps when the generator is running at high rpm's and its cutting out. Sort out the wiring- if you have the original wiring harness then chances are you have some missing insulation and a short somewhere.
     
  20. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    The wiring in the engine compartment-for the head lights are exposed in some areas,some lights under the dash have been cut and are not hooked up.This weekends project will be to go through ALL the wiring,get it insulated/sorted and install the new brushes on the generator.
     
  21. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Will I need to re-polarize the generator just because I'm changing the brushes?If so how do I tell whether its externally grounded or internally grounded,I now there is two different methods depending
     
  22. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Probably won't need to but being it's Delco system jumper wire from BAT to GEN/ARM terminals on the volt reg for a second.
     
  23. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Ah OK now I'm getting it so basically when you polarize the voltage regulator it does the generator as well.So the whole system get polarized.Awesome! .Thats exactly what I did when I put the new regulator on.When I put every back together (the generator with new brushes)and go through the entire car checking for bare wires and loose connections.I will then polarize it one last time and check w/ voltage meeter.I`m starting to feel confident now with all this.
     
  24. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Update-All wires have be gone over/bad connections fixed.And then a similar problem still happens.At idle its fine,revving it a little -no problems,As soon as I take it out on the street and get into second gear it breaks up shuts down and then will not start without some starting fluid,then it dies.I can let it sit for a bit and sometimes it will stumble a bit on start up and then continue running but as soon as its under load it breaks up again.All my battery charging issues are fixed,It was still cranking really strong after all the problems that happened today.Could a fuel pump shut down at higher rmp`s?Totally lost ..again
     
  25. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Well !!!!!!!!!!! Try a temp fuel can and a piece of hose to the pump and give that a try. Me and my buddy have a electric pump with some wire and jumper clips along with a couple of pieces of hose and a can. That way we take everything out of the fuel system but the carb. Also what have you done to the iginion system? points coil anything??
     
  26. andyleonard
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 22

    andyleonard
    Member
    from topanga ca

    My '38 Ford did the same thing. It was the wire from the ignition to the coil breaking down when hot. Car started and ran fine when cold. I - after 3 tows home - ran a jumper from the battery direct to the coil and it ran like a train. New piece of wire solved it permanently.
     
  27. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I will try that-the temp fuel can to pump-I haven't done anything to the ignition my self-Previous owner did new plugs/wires.Coil looks old.Should I just wait a few weeks save the cash and purchase a new coil and points?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  28. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Yea man I notice today that the hot wire to the coil is bolted to the starter as well as the hot wire from the battery-I will try what you did-can you leave it that way permanently?Running the jumper like you did?
     
  29. andyleonard
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 22

    andyleonard
    Member
    from topanga ca

    You'd think the hot wire to the coil would be coming from the ignition switch. Does the switch heat up the small terminal on the starter? For the experiment I would bypass the starter and go directly from the battery to the coil and see if your problem is gone. You don't want a permanently hot coil, as it will burn the coil and drain the battery.
     
  30. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Yes your rite,just looked at it.It comes from the ignition switch.I`m going to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the coil,I'm also going to get a new coil,points,fuel pump and filters and check the line to make sure its clear.I have no idea how old these parts are and or when they have been replaced.
     

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