Straight axle steering...is this right?

it appears to have plenty of travel on the shocks....i think its more of how the steering is, the whole thing just doesn't look right.

 

The picture I posted/drew was of the last option I suggested. You could even just go a simple route and create a sort of dropped pitman arm and connect it to your draglink. I honestly think it'd be the easiest for you to do depending upon your welding skills. Just a simple vertical piece of heavy walled tubing and angle braced down to the draglink itself.

I like this idea better than that of a bent or angled draglink as an angled one may 'rotate' which would somewhat negate the effects of the bends. By connecting it to the pitman arm it would form a triangle with its mounting points and hold it steady.

I say it's simple damnit! USE IT! LOL! Seriously though, use whatever is best for you. I just offer suggestions and hope they are used!

 

Sorry to say but this arrangement in the sketch if I read it correctly wont work.
For a start the Pitman arm and idler must be in parallel. This arrangement as sketched produces differential rates of movement. One end will move up and the other down , probably causing binding.

Second , If I read the drawing correctly you have in effect erected a suspension bridge between the axle and the frame . How is the suspension supposed to work?

Third as the suspension compresses the axle moves forward slightly . How is compensation for that achieved. There appears to be no compensation for that.

 

If the cross link is to the front of the axle the arms should point out (towards the tires), otherwise you will have negative Ackerman which will make it wander horribly. If they are now pointing in, the axle was installed backwards. Some drag cars were set up negative to get more bite from really skinny front tires.

 

Aww hell... I apologized for my bad drawings, what more do you want! LOL

I know the idler and pitman would have to be parallel, but if I drew'em that way, all you'd see in the crappy drawing would be two spots where they were located. THEN you'd be complaining about not being able to tell what I was doing with them! Get with the program! LOL!

Seriously though, this setup is taken/borrowed/used by many of those 4x4 trucks with the 12-18" of lifted suspensions and bodies sitting on 44" tall tires and straight front axles with leaf springs. Seeing as how this axle *IS* a straight axle with leaf springs, the exact same setup could/should work just as well.

However, since I've never driven or ridden in one setup like this, all I know is that it has been used and has worked. I just don't know how it would work in this case. Anything's gotta be better'n what he's got now!

 

Umm, I gotta agree, I see no way that design skech could work. The spindles must move up and down, the idler/ pitman do not. You got to be missing something the monster trucks are doing.
Back to the problem at hand, I've been thinking about how we'll set up the steering in my boy's new Falcon project. We plan on a straight axle moved foward ( alterered wheelbase car) and I was thinking about tradtional VS cross steer. For years we used Mustang boxes turned to put the pitman outside of the frame and ran the drag link foward to the left spindle on early Ford hot rods. I didn't see a reason I couldn't do the same with the Falcon box, basically the same box. I think they (TCI?) still sell the pitman arms we used. Just half too make sure the drag link is the right angle/ leanth so it's in the same arc as the spring movement and would probably have to have the shackles in the front.

 

no pics yet- mine's a 61 Falcon but i think most falcon/stang boxes mount the same-just have different shaft dia's available.

Since i'm going all custom with cage and such-i'm not set on keeping the whole stock column- So i'm shortening the bottom of the column outer shell as much as will be needed, then adding a ujoint to turn the shaft forward horizontally along the frame to the steering box.

many places (speedway for instance) sell a rod end that is honed out slightly to be a slip fit over a 3/4" shaft this is what i'll use to stabilize the u-jointed area. You can just hone your own rod end if you have one around.

Mounting the Stock falcon box does get you parallel-ish drag link to tie rod relationship, IF you connect your drag link to the TOP of the passenger side spindle.

I'm not completely there yet but it's looking very promising. I had to stop the project for a month to work on some other stuff.

This is the easiest way i could figure out how to get the steering box to talk to the passenger spindle when there's an oilpan in the way at the same time as keeping the pitman straight enough to let it pass between the spring and frame.

rick.

 

I agree that looking at it there needs to be some flex in the system I proposed, but for the life of me I cannot find any pictures of what I know for a fact I saw. I don't know if it just acted as an intermediary in the effect of dropping the plane the outer tie rods attached to - which makes sense - or what. Possibly attaching the upper section to the Idler and Pitman, and then act as the lowered Pitman arm. However, I don't know, but it sure would look cool as hell if it would work!

 

Leadsled51, Lets break this down with some evaluation of the parts you have. If you are going to use this vehicle or race it the first aspect is to make it safe for you and your competitors or fellow drivers. You have some issues that need to be carefully addressed and the excuse that that's how it was built or it costs too much is not really a good rationale.

The basic build appears to be on the right track for gasser style car. Now lets start with some parts. First the spindles, These appear from the pictures to be from a 1935 or 1936 Ford car, These are the hardest spindles to work with because there are two different variations. The snout lengths are different between years and to install hubs may or may not require bearing spacers. It impossible to identify what you have for hubs but there looks to be a spacing issue with them because of the space between the inner spindle grease seal boss and the spindle hub, Something looks wrong.

Next while we are talking about the spindles, these spindles are made for a top load bearing support, You have no rotational bearing for the spindles just a spacer. This is metal to metal when you turn. This goes back to the spindle choice, the king pin for these goes down from the top and the bearing is atop the upper spindle boss and king pin top casting to support the load. You are missing this. You can use a Torrington flat roller bearing to take up the space between the lower spindle boss and the bottom axle boss but this little bearing gets full of dirt really easy and rusts up unless it has extra maintenance. While on the spindle topic, The king pin is installed UP side down, if you use a set screw to hold the king pin in place and it loosens up the king pin falls right out! In any case even though these spindles may look like they will work they leave some questions and may be more of a problem than using the later style 37-48 Ford type. The later type have multiple aftermarket steering arm designs.

Now the upper steering arm looks to be from a T bucket but although it would work on that car with all the washers and spacers you have created too may leverarms and this will cause tha steel to flex. To use this you would have to have a gusset on every bend to add stiffness. While on the steering arm the drag link comes into question. This is a combo of parts that has issues. The heim end does not have enough radial rotation to prevent binding. Eliminating and changing the heim to another tie rod end would give you more rotation and less chance of binding.

Now the pitman arm, does this have a new end welded on it or is that the original taper end? By simply re tapering the tie rod/pitman arm taper to the opposite side of the pitman arm would lower the angle of the drag link more parallel to the steering arm and eliminate that gob of spacers. You still may have a ratio issue as the box rotates but that reverse orientation should make horizontal alignment better.

Because of the short drag link, I think I would be exploring a Right side steer possibility. Not being able to actually see the angle between the steering box and the Rh steer arm there may be enough room to run a RH cross steer drag link by just modifying the front of the oil pan, The pump and pickup are to the rear of the pan so cutting a dimple in the front sump part of the pan and welding it back up would be a simple route. This would give you a RH steer and still keep your original column and box.

The shock absorber is a little close to bottoming out on compression from the picture. You need to reposition the mount to get a little more travel to prevent damage to the shock.

Anyway here are some things to think about as you up grade your ride.

 

Dick, I really like your advice. I want to be safe for myself and other racers. I think the best thing is to almost start from scratch...it seems the only thing usable is the axle, and springs. I am pretty much resigned to getting new spindles, steering arm and will probably put brakes on the front as well. I know by the rules you don't have to have front brakes, but i will sacrafice safety for looks. I think the only way I can do cross steering is maybe by using a front sump oil pump and pan...this may solve all my issues. I really appreciate everyones help....this is what the H.A.M.B. is all about!!!

 

Dick has made some very good points. I did a little quicky plotting and don't believe you will ever have an acceptable amount of Bump Steer with the short side drag Link. You really need to go to a cross steer set up.
Many guys have been successful using this oil pan

 

Years ago I swapped a sweet little small journal 327 in a Chevy II. The rear sump pan was up against the tie rod so I bought a front sump pan from the local Chevy dealer. To make a long story short, the pan wouldn't fit. There was a problem in that either the front or the rear seal was a differient diameter than the seal in block I had. You should double check to make sure a front sump pan fits before you commit...

 

Yea, that might be a way to go....if that notch is deep enough, or maybe i can make a new pitman arm that will be long enough. Search Summit or Jegs for this?

 

Yep Summit or Jeg's Early Nova is the application

 

For one thing, I would get that steering arm out of the space between the spring and the frame. If you were to break a spring, or really bottom thing out, the lack of clearance would probably lock your wheels in the position that they are pointing in. Which may not be the way you need to go on short notice.