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Stout 4-Speed. Which is best?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by FlatheadWillie, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,675

    Larry T
    Member

    I thought he moved to some Caribbean Island. Maybe he hung out with Jimmy Buffet.

    BTW, don't mistake the 4+1 for the 4+3 Corvette transmission that he also developed. It's a completely different animal and a white elephant (as far as I'm concerned).

    BTW2, Richmond/Doug Nash 4+1 transmissions have a 1:1 5th gear, not overdrive so you get your higher gearing in the rearend not the transmission. And the older DN 5 speeds were crash boxes with straght cut gears. Not really street transmissions. The newer STREET transmissions have helical cut gears and syncros.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  2. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,423

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    What most of the guys running in the NHRA super stock cars?
     
  3. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,675

    Larry T
    Member

    My guess would be something not very streetable, like a Liberty clutchless transmission. Super Stockers and street cars don't have much in common.
     
  4. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    Yeah...that's hardly a street engine. Just look at those cam specs. More to the point, 4900RPM is a quite high torque peak. It's mainly low-end torque (and sticky tires and heavy cars) that will kill a trans.

    That's why most Japanese cars, and bikes, get away with small ring and pinions and gearboxes. There's simply no 'abruptness' of power - it builds over enough time that the geartrain is loaded in a proportional manner.
     
  5. Yup...Filled block, Dominator carb..

    I can just imagine the O/P's ideas for a 600 horse "street" 400
     
    WanatahHustler likes this.
  6. hopped up
    Joined: Oct 5, 2009
    Posts: 401

    hopped up
    Member
    from So Cal

    Muncie "Rock crusher"
     
  7. I've been running a cast case A833 O/D wide ratio box behind my hemi for 10 years plus. I haven't been able to break it yet but the 1-2 shift is a PAIN!!! I upgraded from the comp plus shifter to a vertical ram rod shifter. I love that thing! Haven't been down a strip since I switched but I know it will improve times. So far she's run a best of 12.10 @ 115.10 so I think I'm making enough power to hurt stuff. I have busted the yoke on the 9" before.
     
  8. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I built all three transmissions not only for my customers, but also for Gear Vendor. The last one I built for them was a T10 to go behind a Tri-Power FE....

    My opinion as far as strength from seeing what's inside:

    Strongest is the A833, then the T10, then the Muncie.

    Reverse it the other way, and the easiest shifting to the hardest shifting is the Muncie, T10, and then the A833. The Muncie has large synchro's that stop the gears better between shifts.... A833 synchro's are smaller, but hella Beefy!!!

    I am a big dude, shifting a A833 is not an issue for me. I prefer the Hurst Competition Plus Shifters....

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 4,539

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    6 yrs old post???? My choice is a Tex T-101 10 yr old NASCAR trans.. handles 7-800 HP no sweat.
     
    quicksilverart46 likes this.
  10. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 829

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    I might be still “a little new.” What happens when a post becomes 6 yrs old?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,614

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Well, people will post some goofy answers sometimes after 6 years. I vote SM420, or NP435.
     
  12. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 12,031

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    The trans for my roadster is a Richmond Super T-10, I know the price has gone up considerably since buying it many years ago but all things considered I still think it's the best bang for the buck.
     
    classiccarjack likes this.
  13. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I am goofy... How did you know?

    I will probably run a NP435 in one of my trucks...

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    s55mercury66 likes this.
  14. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    For me it's not the age of the post, but more the relevance.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    31hotrodguy likes this.
  15. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 829

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Got it! I was wondering about that. I know there are some post that might do good to be brought back from the dead. A lot of the old photos will no longer load and some information has changed regarding vendors and parts availability. But I wasn’t sure if there was an “unwritten” or “written” rule when you can and can’t post on an “old” thread. Now back to the 4spds!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  16. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    When I owned my shop, I would have groups of engines come all at once to get built, then I would get a group of Transmissions to get built, and then I would get brake jobs or what have you. Everything always comes and phases it seems to have no rhyme or reason. I used to joke with the help that these guys would tell their friends.... So here they all come in at once! LOL

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    31hotrodguy likes this.
  17. It gets humorous when a FNG digs up a 10 year old zombie thread and responds as his FIRST post... how do they dredge them up? Guys on here 15 years can't use the search function....
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  18. Thanks for bringing it back anyway.
    Now I wonder if the O/P ever fulfilled his "dream" of a 600 hp 400 Pontiac street car ?
     
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  19. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Which guy is the fucking new guy?

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I wonder about that myself. The Pontiacs sure did a number on the poor Muncies back in the day...

    What made me bring this up is, while at the Electronics store, I met a 76 year old man. He said that he had a 1951 Merc Flathead in a Hot Rod of his, a 1934 Ford I believe he said. I told him that I had 10 vehicles ranging from 1936-1940. He told me that the Mopars were no good, the main bearings are weak and too small. He also mentioned that there weren't enough mains to support the crankshaft. I didn't say anything back, I guess 3 mains is better right? LOL. Then he asked if I was going to put a four speed behind one of my Hemi's. I told him yes, either a A833 or a T10 preference. He said back, them aren't 4 speeds, those are junk, get A Muncie! They are a REAL 4 speed. It's just Physics! I don't know about you guys, I don't have a master's degree in physics, but I have hands on experience building many 3,4,and 5 speed transmissions. Ranging from the 1930' up to the off topic years. By what I saw, and by how much of the transmission that could not be reused during the build, I can say that the T10's and A833's rarely needed much other than synchro parts. Then some gaskets and bearings, mostly just because I am there. The munchies usually had some Carnage from being beaten up by a big block. Those were more expensive to build do to the fact that I was replacing gears, shafts and sometimes tossing what was inside and just reusing the case only. I think that guy and myself went to two totally different Universities. But then perhaps his Muncie is only behind a Flathead, not a Pontiac 421,428, or 455. Perhaps a 396, 427, or 454 Chevy? You cannot tell me that the laws of physics states that a 427 FE Ford or a 460 in front of a T10 has less Torque and HP than. Flathead Mercury. Or a 413,426,or 440 Mopar for that matter. What the hell, a 426 Hemi to? IDK where he got his opinions from, but then I also believe that he didn't own a shop that restored and built Muscle Cars and Big Block powered Hot Rods like I did for over a decade.... Sigh

    Okay, I am done ranting, I'll shut up now and quit boring you guys with me cheesy experience yesterday... LOL

    So yeah, I rekindled my research on 4 speeds just to check myself. I am a learning person, and if I am wrong about something, I want to make it right. I n general, I will research it to be absolutely sure that my experiences aren't just a fluke...

    As a added note, I learned about some Nascar transmissions that I never heard of before. Totally worth bumping the topic!!!

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    31hotrodguy likes this.
  21. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,701

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Reviving a 6 yo post is a "necro-post", and it will cause you to be haunted by the mummies of dead rat rod builders, who will weld spider webs all over your car while you sleep.

    Hey, at least this thread was good for a few laughs. I especially liked the guy who said Muncies were weak and that he blew 3 of them. Then a page later he came back to post about how bitchin his car is, and that he rev's it to 10 grand and side steps the clutch. Yeah, I'm thinking the problem isn't really in the transmission. I'm just sayin........
     
  22. You get guys that like to complain no matter what.

    You just can't win on forums, you start a new thread, you get the "Do a search! This topic's been beat to death!" response. You do a search and post on an old thread and you get the "Why did you bring up such an old thread?? :rolleyes:" response.

    Back to the topic, an M22 AKA "Rock Crusher" was pretty stout for it's time but is more of a collectible trans these days, you can't beat the sound either. I would rather run a Toploader, stronger IMO and more affordable and plentiful.
     
    chevy57dude and 31hotrodguy like this.
  23. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I want to see a ten grand rev!!! LOL

    If mummies come to weld on some of my cabs, then they will at least have metal instead of nothing but rust...

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  24. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 671

    6sally6
    Member

    Thought about a nice Lenco?!! 4 or 5 speed. You AIN'T gonna tear this one up and a real "eye candy" candidate!!!
    6sally6
     
    classiccarjack likes this.
  25. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Isn't RacerX using a Lenco? I maybe wrong about that. Those are really neat transmissions. I have desire to own one someday.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  26. How about that Legend 5 speed on the street. Long wait time to get one but supposedly bulletproof ????
     
  27. quicksilverart46
    Joined: Dec 7, 2016
    Posts: 438

    quicksilverart46
    Member

    Yeah buddy The Tex Racing T-101A is the best and I’m running one in my ‘46 Chevy Street/Strip Gasser. G-Force is now making them as a G-4. [​IMG] Magnesium case,9310 nickel alloy spur gears, face tooth dog engagement, 300 possible ratio combinations!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,422

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Nice... How strong is Magnesium? I am not being a smart ass. I really want to know how it compares to aluminum. I know that VW's made Magnesium Engine cases. And the Term "mag wheels" came from magnesium, and etc. I have never owned a magnesium component, and then used it to compare to Aluminum...

    I am not familiar and want to learn more about this metal. Other than it burns bright as lightning in a fire. That's my only experience with it.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. quicksilverart46
    Joined: Dec 7, 2016
    Posts: 438

    quicksilverart46
    Member

    Magnesium is 1/3 lighter than Aluminum and is very stiff and strong . There are dozens of alloy combinations and most cast mag parts used for transmissions is heat treated and very strong and light.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    mad mikey likes this.

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