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History Stock-S/S-F/X 1959-1966

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Race Artist, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. This thread is the greatest.......It will take a while but looking forward to going though all the pages, too bad some pics are Xed out.
     
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  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 36,925

    loudbang
    Member


    SPOT ON George.
     
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  3. George Klass
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 939

    George Klass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I do think that had GM not bowed out of racing in 1963, Super Stock and maybe even Factory Experimental would have been an even bigger show than it was. If the non-racing edict from GM had not been enforced, Chevy would have produced enough Z-11 Chevy's to be competitive in S/S. Same for Pontiac and the Swiss Cheese Catalina's. Pontiac at leased did produce a few 421 Tempest LeMans' to compete in F/X before the ban in 1963. Chevy never did build a factory produced F/X car. And technically, neither did Dodge or Plymouth (the original Altered Wheelbase Mopars did not qualify under NHRA rules for the class). So other than the half dozen 421 Tempests, only FoMoCo produced Factory Experimental cars, with the Ford Mustangs (10 or so original cars in '65) and the Comet Cyclones (20 or so in '64). Who know where S/S and F/X would have been if all the factories had still been in the mix?
     
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  4. George Klass
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 939

    George Klass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had mentioned above somewhere that the S/S class did not exist prior to 1961. This was not true, the S/S designation existed in the Stock Car category at least as far back as 1958 (I don't have any NHRA rulebooks earlier than 1958). The thing is, I am not aware of anyone falling into that class prior to 1960.

    And of course, the S/S class did not exist at the Winternationals until 1961, for the simple reason that the Winternationals did not exist prior to 1961. Before that, there were no other NHRA National events except the once a year U.S. Nationals.

    I first became aware of the S/S class in 1960, at the U.S. Nationals. There were at least 3 Pontiacs (389 inch engines in 1960) running in S/S, and two of them were sponsored by Royal Pontiac, a stick car and an automatic car. The stick car (driven by Jim Wangers) eventually took home the Stock Eliminator trophy. I remember Dick Jesse drove a Pontiac too. I don't think there were any Fords or Chevys in the S/S class that year, although I may be wrong about the Fords. I think all the Chevys (348 inch) were running in A/S. I seem to recall two Plymouths, one driven by Al Ekstrand, who won the S/SA class (beating a S/SA Pontiac in the final).

    I don't think that NHRA (or anyone else) had any idea how popular the Super Stock class was about to become...
     
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  5. The mustangs were deemed legal for nhra but technically illegal due to the wheelbase mods over 2 percent.
     
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  6. NO.
    What I'm saying is this thread is entitled
    Stock-S/S-F/X 1959-1966
    Therefore it should only contain pictures of cars from that era.
    A picture of a SBC Super Stocker from 1972 or newer does not fit the time frame of the thread.
    Obviously, it doesn't fit the the year/ model parameter either, if you so decide that's what the title means.
    You can write about and show history, but you can't re-write it.
    BTW, the Cal-Van picture is wrong too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  7. George Klass
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 939

    George Klass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I collect vintage (another word for old) photos of vintage drag cars for my website. Some (or most) off the internet and some from people who are nice enough to send them to me. Many of these photos I can't use, not because there is anything wrong with the photos, but because they are either not old photos or not old cars (my cut-off is usually 1966). I look at the cars, does it have the flat style hood scoop that was typically after the 1960's or later? Does it have wheels (some of those Center Lines) that were not available until after the 1960's were over. Does it have a roll bars that were not the type used in the 1960's or earlier? And then there is the background. Are there EZ-Ups in the photos? Are there concrete guard rails? Are there cars in the pits from the 1970's or 1980's or later? After awhile, you can get very good at identifying a vintage photo of a vintage race car, and separate the "nostalgia" cars that are basically "fake news", at least on my site...
    20451845_668629759901_1208662196499473730_o.jpg
    Is this a vintage photo of a vintage S/S Dodge? The car, maybe. The photo, nope (the DARE program did not start until 1983) and the pick-up truck?...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  8. Race Artist
    Joined: Feb 9, 2008
    Posts: 954

    Race Artist
    Member

    Hubert Pulley Z11 from NC.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,826

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Thank you. ^^^
     
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  10. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,185

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Tidesco from Pittsburgh PID..

    Tidesco 63 Impala.jpg
     
  11. Race Artist
    Joined: Feb 9, 2008
    Posts: 954

    Race Artist
    Member


    Hubert Pulley Z11 from NC.
    Joel
     
  12. LennyFreebern
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 116

    LennyFreebern
    Member

    Kentuckian, Are you familiar with this document? I'm curious about the statement saying the inside of the rear vent opening in the hood needing to be taped shut. I've never seen this on any tbolt undergoing tech inspection back in the day. Thanks, Len Freebern
     

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  13. Kentuckian
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 759

    Kentuckian
    Member

    That was something that did not get enforced. There is still a rule that says a S/S hood scoop cannot have more than one opening. Since the Thunderbolt did not have a front opening, the rear opening is allowed.
     
  14. LennyFreebern
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 116

    LennyFreebern
    Member

    Well, that's what I thought. Then I considered the two headlight openings with the ram tubes to the carburators. Wouldn't that count as an "opening(s)?
     
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  15. Kentuckian
    Joined: Nov 26, 2008
    Posts: 759

    Kentuckian
    Member

    It is an opening but the rule says "no more than one opening in the hood." The openings are not in the hood. At any rate, NHRA accepted the ram tubes from the removed headlights as the car was manufactured .
     
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  16. hemiman_1999
    Joined: Apr 8, 2009
    Posts: 89

    hemiman_1999
    Member

    Hello everyone I don't mean to get anyone off topic here but this appears to be the best thread to ask these questions. I have read that in 1962 Arnie Beswick had a dispute with Pontiac and ended up running a 62 Belair Bubble Top for the first part of the season. According to what I have read he never liked the car and never got it up to the level he had the 61 Pontiac from the year before. He and Pontiac worked out the problem and Arnie got a 62 Catalina in the same blue as the 61 and raced it the rest of the year...I can find no pictures of the Belair and actually just the 2 articles I have read on it is all the info I can find. Does anyone have more info or any pictures the Chevy it was supposed to be a Red in Red car.
    Stay Healthy and Stay Safe
     
  17. hemiman_1999
    Joined: Apr 8, 2009
    Posts: 89

    hemiman_1999
    Member

    Wow it looks like My Question stumped the group. No one has any info on this car?
    Take Care and Stay Healthy Everyone.......
     
  18. Todd553
    Joined: Feb 16, 2005
    Posts: 524

    Todd553
    Member

    Untitled.png From the book, 1001 Drag Racing Facts.
     
  19. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 36,925

    loudbang
    Member


    It's talked about in here post 4610
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nhra-junior-stock.201085/page-154#post-4703999

    I know I posted a photo of it somewhere on the HAMB and it was red BUT I can't find it now.

    It doesn't show in a name search but if you have time scroll through this: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/super-stock-a-fx-match-race-photos.1101449/
     
  20. hemiman_1999
    Joined: Apr 8, 2009
    Posts: 89

    hemiman_1999
    Member

    Thanks Guys I went through the strings and could not find any pics of the Beswick 62 Chevy I also have sent requests to the contact info I have for the Beswick family hopefully this will get something. All the info you guys supplied is what I had heard he only ran the car a couple of months and never was competitive in it so there may be no pics of the car....Thanks again guys Stay Healthy.......
     
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  21. Longstroke
    Joined: Dec 23, 2014
    Posts: 60

    Longstroke
    Member

    One of the best threads and topic's here on the HAMB. I love it. No doubt the greatest era in drag racing period. I am 62 and t0o young to have been a real part of it but old enough to remember these wonder drag stockers in the many car magazines I got as a kid. I envy you guys that were right there in the middle of it, especially the guys behind the wheels. Cheers.
     
  22. I'm trying to find a good photo of the Clester Andrews driven Bardahl sponsored A/FX SOHC Mustang (the Orange car), helping a guy with a tribute. In particular the front fender area where the Doug's Headers logo is (just ahead of this picture). ANYONE????? Thanks[​IMG]
     
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  23. old flopper
    Joined: Apr 23, 2013
    Posts: 394

    old flopper
    Member

    Not a clear picture. It’s a enlarged one from Draglist.com with picture credit to Mike Ditty.
    upload_2020-12-2_20-54-37.png
     
  24. Thanks, I have that one, but the lettering under the Doug's logo is not clear enough to duplicate. Appreciate the effort.
     
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  25. Thank you all for posting here, all the great pictures and info. I’m working on a 1/18 scale of Don Nicholson’s ‘61 Impala
     
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  26. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,978

    jnaki

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-1958-nhra-nationals.265313/page-10#post-12606703 thanks @HEMI32

    1958 rule book:
    upload_2020-12-15_5-5-45.png
    as per drag racing rules: from @HEMI32… Here's the 1958 NHRA rulebook (c/o @RainierHooker ... via @jnaki):


    Hello,

    There should not be any period correct discussion about when and what in stock car drag racing. As far as the national sanctioning body sets rules in book form from 1958 and upward to when they eliminated those classes, it should be accepted.

    We were there in 1957 58, and 1959 running in those factory stock car classes. The thread title is 59-66 S/S classes. According to HAMB rules, it should say 58-65 years that are appropriate.


    The 1959 rules included the 59 Impala with a 335hp 348 motor and 4 speed. That was the usual culprit on the trophy handouts at the end of eliminations. Maybe an occasional 58 Chevy with a 315 hp motor and 3 speed will sneak in to win a few. If you check out the old Drag News periodicals from back in those time periods, it shows the beginning of the very active factory stock car drag racing. It was set up for the ordinary Joe/Mary to drive their own street cars to the drag strip, pop off the hubcaps and go racing.

    Jnaki

    The door lettering, allowed modifications and sponsorships were all later in the years. We never saw those cars as factory stock. (even though, they were allowed to compete in the “stock” classes) And, definitely never on the streets of Bixby Knolls, very close to Lion’s Dragstrip. Sponsorship ruined it for the average hot rodder with a nice car from the dealer to be competitive.
    1957 February
    upload_2020-12-15_5-8-44.png

    JAN 1958 upload_2020-12-15_5-9-27.png

    POMONA JAN 1958 upload_2020-12-15_5-10-26.png

    POMONA DEC 1958 upload_2020-12-15_5-11-31.png

    By the end of 1958, LIONS, SAN FERNANDO, SANTA ANA only had A/S as the top class. In 59, there was an S/S class for 335hp 4 speed Impalas and other Chevy cars.

    But to accommodate some of the faster cars and allow more classes to race, Pomona,Colton and San Gabriel had an SS CLASS.






     
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  27. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,700

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank Jnaki, that was a fun read! I’m surprised at how little Ford seems to have been mentioned. Where were all the hot Fords in the late 50’s Southern California racing scene??


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  28. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,838

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    A friend of a friend's S/S Plymouth A990 down-under
    upload_2020-12-16_20-39-28.png
     
  29. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,978

    jnaki





    Hey 31,

    The Fords were there from 57 onward, but they had to compete with the hot 57 injected Chevy Bel Air sedans in the top classes. Then in 1958, they had to go up against the 1958 348 Impalas. The last straw was in 1959 when the 335 HP Impalas came out with 4 speeds. It was a tough road to plow through for the trophies.

    The Paxton Supercharged Fords had an equal footing in the early days 57-58 if the driver was quick and got a great start. But, as the 59 year rolled in, it was hard for the Ford motors to keep up with the newest 335 HP Impalas. Our 58 280 HP Impala had a hard time against more horsepower from the factory, too. The jump up to the SS class for the 59 Impalas and El Caminos made it more fun for the less HP older Impalas and Fords.

    Jnaki

    If you go back through the old Drag News papers and look at the old 9-10 So Cal dragstrip results, there are a lot of Ford class wins. But, as the years rolled on with new factory powerhouses coming onto the scene, it was a hard road to follow. Some modified their motors and jumped into the Gas Coupe and Sedan Classes, with the weight to power ratios. Until those classes got thrown out later on in the 60s.
    57 supercharged Ford vs 58 Impala


    57 Ford vs 59 El Camino LeMans race Bob Goggle film clip
     
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  30. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,700

    31hotrodguy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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