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Technical STILL TOO HOT!

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Eric Wolf, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. Deuce Man
    Joined: Jul 31, 2015
    Posts: 140

    Deuce Man

    Like Nitroholic said, I would check the ignition timing. I had a distributor go bad on my chevy powered 32. It was severly retarding my timing, ran so hot that the exhaust manifolds were glowing. Rich
     
  2. Kiwi Tinbender
    Joined: Feb 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,155

    Kiwi Tinbender
    Member

    Hey Eric, I have sent you a `Conversation`....I can steer you to some reputable people that can help you in the Portland area.......maybe I can as well.......
     
  3. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,147

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    Vacuum advance connected to full advance at idle not ported , and as stated seems that the issue is ign related to me
     
  4. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,034

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Without a recovery tank, this coolant loss is normal due to heat expansion.

    Gary[/QUOTE]

    It's normal only if you refill the radiator after it pukes out a pint. A working system with no coolant recovery tank will always have some air in the top tank, which is evacuated when the coolant expands. It will push out whatever coolant it needs to in order to reach it's working level.

    First pic looks like the tip of the fan blade is bent. Besides a flex fan's marginal effectiveness, you should never run a fan that has any damage whatsoever. When they come apart at high RPM they can be lethal to bystanders.
     
  5. Noland
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    Noland
    Member

    yes,ditch that flex fan and get one like hotrodprimer suggested. Ive had very good luck with them. may need a higher pressure cap also but I would start with the fan.
     
  6. I run these too. I have a couple (un-bent...) ones left over from the stock car days. In the 'yard, old Mopar and Caddy fans were the ticket.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Make sure that your timing is set properly, using the PROPER method.

    Vacuum advanced disconnected and plugged, at proper idle speed. If an auto, IN GEAR.

    Late timing can cause temperature issues.

    Also, get a 17# cap.
     
  8. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 2,949

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    There are two types of radiator caps, 1 for a closed system i.e. no coolant recovery system. 1 for an open system like you have, be sure you have the right cap on the radiator.
    All the advice form the other fellows sounds good except the 17 lb. cap, that will probably blow your radiator.
    Also corrugated hoses can cause problems, a molded hose with a spring inside to prevent collapsing is always preferred.
    Hope you find the source of the problem soon.
    KK
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If a 17# cap blows the radiator then it is not up to the task in the first place. 14.7# is atmospheric pressure at sea-level.
     
  10. It's normal only if you refill the radiator after it pukes out a pint. A working system with no coolant recovery tank will always have some air in the top tank, which is evacuated when the coolant expands. It will push out whatever coolant it needs to in order to reach it's working level.

    First pic looks like the tip of the fan blade is bent. Besides a flex fan's marginal effectiveness, you should never run a fan that has any damage whatsoever. When they come apart at high RPM they can be lethal to bystanders.[/QUOTE]
    This fan blade broke off and sliced open the top hose before going all the way into the 1/2 inch OSB. (Oriented strand board). 12 foot up from the floor!
    It happened while tuning my Banger engine. I only use new blades now and never ever stand in line with a running engine's fan blade!
    Notice it up next to the Can-Am banner.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,228

    Gman0046
    Member

    HRP X2. Running hot a low speed is indicative of not enough fan. Runs hot at highway speed is not enough radiator.
     
    onetrickpony and loudbang like this.
  12. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,034

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Gimpy, I assume you're not suggesting that the radiator is only seeing 2.3 psi of pressure. A radiator cap is rated at the differential in pressure between the inside of the radiator and the outside, meaning that the pressure inside the radiator is 17psi higher than atmospheric pressure. In other words, they are rated at psig instead of psia. A new or good rebuilt radiator will withstand 17 psi, but there are a lot of them out there in our old hot rods that would leak like a sieve were they to be tested at 17 psi. Coolant pressurized at 17 psi has a boiling point near 263º F.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  13. trailerpark
    Joined: Apr 8, 2014
    Posts: 96

    trailerpark
    Member

    Thanks Gman, it doesn't get any simpler than that. I think I can remember it.
     
  14. A good friend is running that same fan (they are Stainless, not aluminum by the way) on a pretty built 409 with dual quads and a stock size '32 radiator. Doesn't run hot at all.He is running the Truck water pump that center the fan in the middle of the radiator .
     
  15. Can't tell from the picture, but is that shroud just a ring, or does it have complete coverage over the radiator outside the ring?
     
  16. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    Correct me if I'm wrong, and keeping things simple, water at atmospheric pressure boils at 212 degrees. When water boils, little bubbles appear. That means that wherever there's a little bubble against the block wall in your system, there is NO WATER touching that hot metal. Bad! Raising the cap pressure, raises the boiling point so that the engine can run hotter without causing little bubbles and harm. Raising cap pressure won't make it run cooler, just less likely to cause bubbles. An open pot of water will boil and cause little bubbles at below 212 degrees in Denver Colorado. That's why granny always canned here in the mountains with a pressure cooker.
     
  17. sawbuck
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,868

    sawbuck
    Member
    from 06492 ct

    i asked the same ?
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Fully aware, thanks.

    What has been suggested is that 24.7psi is just fine (14.7+10) which it appears to be, as that is what is being run, yet 31.7 (14.7+17) is not.

    If your radiator cannot handle an additional 7psi, it should probably be a wall-hanger.

    That margin-of-error is unacceptable, in my book. You do the math, and tell me what that safety-factor exactly is.
     
  19. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,034

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    10 vs 17 is 70% more pressure. 14.7 has no bearing on the math. If you want to include it in the measure of pressure inside the radiator, then you also need to account for the 14.7 that is present on the outside of the radiator. Equal but opposite forces cancel each other.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
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    And that is still precious little in the way of a safety factor.
     
  21. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,034

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's 20% more than ASME requires for pressure vessel testing.

    I don't know what radiator manufacturers test to. The last one I bought evidently hadn't been tested at all.......
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
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    Think about it, you have a critical cooling system component, one who's failure could not only leave you stranded, but cause damage up to and including the total financial loss of the engine.

    If you are satisfied running a component so fragile, that when exposed to somewhere between 0.001 to 7-pounds of additional internal pressure, it fails completely, with the aforementioned possible outcomes, then be my guest. It's your car.

    I will not.
     
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  23. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    Once again, correct me if I'm wrong, but at the track 180 degrees is optimal but you aren't allowed to run coolant. On the street you run coolant which takes a higher temp before boiling. I've heard claims of waterless propylene glycol allowing temps of 250 degrees. I tried pure proplyne glycol unsuccessfully but I think it was the small impeller in the Jabsco pump that couldn't handle the thick viscosity.
     
  24. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,034

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are two fail-safes in every vehicle that I own that prevents this from happening. The oft-discussed radiator cap, and a quality, tested temperature gauge. The cap will do it's thing without intervention, and the other is up to me to pay attention to. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the radiator manufacturers test to, and further, I have no say in the matter unless I spend beaucoup bucks to have one built by someone that I trust. I don't normally do that if I can buy one off the shelf that works for the application at hand. A pressure test after installation to a couple pounds above the rating on the cap lets me sleep at night.
    How much of a safety factor is built into the radiators that you use, where do you get this info, and do you trust it?
     
  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I often make mine. I test to 30psi. Even the radiator in my '60 Falcon passed that, and it is the one it left with the factory with.

    I test intercoolers to 90, as some of the turbo guys run up to 4-bar boost on the smokers.
     
  26. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I see there are questions about the shroud being just a ring. The pictures seem pretty clear to me. The ring is attached to a full shroud to extend it. The shroud is black.
     
  27. dtracy
    Joined: May 8, 2012
    Posts: 223

    dtracy
    Member

    Perhaps start by setting the shop fan up directly in front of the radiator blowing inward. If it runs cooler then it could be the fan/shroud, otherwise radiator, waterpump, thermostat, hoses, crud in engine. Any or all of the above.

    Dave.
     
  28. The OP is only using a half ring type fan shroud. The rest of the radiator is open. fan shroud.jpg
     
  29. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Add to that..... The general health of the engine. A fuct engine will transfer the BTU's into the cooling system whereas on a healthy engine the energy is transferred to the crankshaft.

    It could be something as simple as cam or ignition timing [ or timing marks being wrong ]

    You either have an engine that is producing excessive heat, or a cooling system that cannot dissipate enough heat
     
  30. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I would submit that you need to have your vision tested or maybe I need mine tested again. Maybe the OP can post more pictures. The ring being shiny makes it more difficult to see the rest of the black shroud but it's there.
     

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