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Hot Rods Steering pulls when turning? !UPDATE 2/9/22!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Shawn Wildman, Jan 26, 2022.

  1. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    I've got a 41' Ford pickup with a rebuilt original steering box, drag links and spindles. This is my first vehicle with a solid front axle, so this is a novice question. The front axle is a 4" drop solid axle and the tires are Coker WW radials. When turning, either left or right, the truck pulls the steering wheel back to straight to the point that I'm almost fighting the steering wheel to stay in the turn. The pull is much stronger than a modern car that automatically returns to straight after a turn. There are lots of crooked back country roads around here and by the time I've been driving for an hour or two, I'm just tired of fighting the wheel and ready to park the truck. Is it normal for the steering to pull the truck back to straight so strongly or is there an issue with the steering?

    There is one issue that must be fixed and it's the reason I'm asking the question. The drag link is actually against the oil pan. To gain clearance for the drag link I either need to change the oil pan to a rear sump or upgrade the entire front suspension/steering to an IFS with rack and pinion, of course I'm open to any third option suggestions anyone may have.
     
  2. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    Pics are needed to answer this question. Pictures of the drag link with wheels straight and turned where it is against the oil pan. I am sure you need to fix that first.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    how much caster angle do you have?
     
  4. Support it safely up in the air, have someone make the turning motions, that will determine the area that needs to be addressed..although it sounds like you've already identified the drag link as the culprit.
    Pictures, we need pictures.
    And "IFS with rack and pinion steering", is not an upgrade on these.
     

  5. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    I'll take some pics tonight when I get back to the house.
     
  6. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    I'm not sure, that's a good question. What is recommended for this model and year?
     
  7. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    "And "IFS with rack and pinion steering", is not an upgrade on these."
    What is your experience with this, why did you type that? This is something I was hoping to learn a lot more about. I'm not unhappy with the ride and the above post is the only issue I have with the steering. I really don't feel like making the change to an IFS, but if it's a HUGE improvement on ride and steering quality I would probably do it.
     
  8. Caster has a lot to do with how hard it wants to go back straight as mentioned and pics would help resolve the issue of the drag link on the pan. I’m guessing that there is a whole lot easier and better solution than going to independent suspension such as bending the steering arms or something to get more clearance.
     
    connielu, Pist-n-Broke and Blues4U like this.
  9. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,086

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Probably around the 7 deg with the top of the axle leaning towards the back of the car.

    it sounds like you have an alignment issue but having that pan hitting is going to be a big issue. Swap to a rear sump, take a it for a drive and then re assess would be my answer for now
     
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  10. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    If your only point of reference is modern IFS power steering cars ,then the old truck may feel excessively rough . If you're comparing to other straight axle 30's- 40's cars , then there may be excessive caster aside from the linkage binding . Get that fixed first & go from there .
     
    Jacksmith likes this.
  11. I have had 8 of these pickups, the 2nd pickup I built I installed a Heidt's MII front end, another pickup I bought someone else had already installed one.
    In both cases the new/well maintained stock or dropped front axle, performed equally as well..and stayed true to the tradional builds I was after.
     
    Blues4U, ClarkH, Oldiesmiles and 2 others like this.
  12. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,086

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    @guthriesmith good thought. If he’s got the room to have the tie rod be lower with out it being a safety concern there are dropped tie rod ends still commonly available. Lowers the whole tie rod around 1.5 inches. Lots of cars and trucks came with them but speedway does carry a set.

    the end is longer than a stock tie rod end because of the drop so you’ll need to shorten the tie rod or make a shorter one but it’s a lot easier than a lot of the fixes for a tie rod hitting the pan
     
    guthriesmith likes this.
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    Sounds like you don't yet know much about how the original suspension and steering is supposed to work. You might want to learn a lot more about that, first.....

    lots of guys here are willing to help you learn. Pictures of your setup, from several different views, will be a big help to explain what might be going on.
     
  14. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    I am suspecting that the drag link lifts as he turns. Pushing harder against the oil pan. He is fighting that pressure as he turns. That is why it is hard to keep turned and pushes back to straight.
     
    Tman, RMR&C, lippy and 3 others like this.
  15. Lol...yea, I also almost mentioned tie rod drop blocks as well. I used those on my 51 F1, but have never done a dropped axle on a 41, so wasn't sure if that was an option. :D
     
  16. You say rebuilt this and that and a dropped axle. Obviously not you, but someone has been screwing with this pickup and as we learn constantly, that can just as often mean screw ups. So, as Squirrel says, plenty of pictures from different angles.
     
  17. Here's my current '41 build, you can see the dropped components to achieve lowering the drag link, on my 4" dropped axle.
    IMG_3871.JPG
     
    pivir123, joel, David Gersic and 4 others like this.
  18. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    If you know it is hitting the oil pan, why not change that?
     
    Tman and ClarkH like this.
  19. I have the same setup under my 40. Stock box, dropped axle, radial tires.
    Steers great at speed, just a little hard standing still.

    It is the DRAGLINK, correct, not the tierod tube?

    What engine? 8BA flathead with center sump? I had one with this, and the draglink hit the pan on turns. You might look for a different Ford draglink that has a drop. Or heat and bend yours.

    I have some rear sump pans, but not the oil pump pickup that’s needed.

    What condition are the motor mounts? Could be letting the engine sit too low.

    Regardless, you need to eliminate ANY interference FIRST.

    Post some pics. Oh yeah, you don’t need to change to IFS, it’s frowned upon on here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    guthriesmith likes this.
  20. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the help and information share.

    I found a set of 1.5" drop tie rods for 46-64 Ford trucks on Speedway's website. The tie rod studs are the same as a 41' Ford pickup so they should fit, although I'll probably have to replace the tie rod.

    https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spee...4y6QQGNUuSG8pjvEfM0iFgqGl_BJ2Q1saAh9rEALw_wcB

    $60 is a lot cheaper than the prices I've seen for an 8BA rear sump oil pan and oil pickup, not to mention an IFS. This should fix problem number one, the drag link hitting the oil pan.

    After I get everything back together I'll check the alignment to make sure everything is correct. If the caster is out, that should correct problem number two (caster is out, if it is a problem) Either way I suspect the steering will be much better.

    I really prefer to keep the original style suspension and steering, so I'll definitely give this a try.
     
  21. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    That is extremely helpful. Thanks for the pic.
     
    guthriesmith likes this.
  22. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,404

    alchemy
    Member

    Please show us pics before you buy anything. If your tie rod and drag link are above the wishbones you won’t be able to use those dropped ends. I suspect that is where your rods are since they are hitting the pan.
     
  23. Tell us about the diameter of your steering wheel as well...this too will affect how much steering effort is required.
     
    gary macdonald and guthriesmith like this.
  24. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,755

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    yes please show us some pics, the tie rods are supposed to be below the wishbone, when you install a dropped axle the steering arms must be heated and bent down or cut off and dropped arms installed
     
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  25. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    Ok, will do. I'll post pics this evening.
     
    Tim likes this.
  26. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,035

    junkman8888
    Member

    Gentlemen, unless and until we are given pictures of the problem at hand all we are accomplishing with our well-meaning suggestions is to confuse the person seeking help.
     
    warhorseracing, connielu and X38 like this.
  27. Exactly Junkman.
    I’m missing something.
    Are you intending to use the two dropped ends on the TIE ROD, or just one of them on the adjustable end of the DRAG LINK?
    Tie rod runs from spindle to spindle steering arms, drag link runs from box pitman arm to RF spindle steering arm.
     
    X38 likes this.
  28. joel, David Gersic, Blues4U and 2 others like this.
  29. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    Hello,
    I THINK on a 1941 one year only spindle 37-41 style round-back model 77 spindle
    on the input long eye side, the taper is cut from the other side.
    or a 37-40 spindle receives the drag links taper end from underneath
    a 1941 ford pick up spindle receives the drag link from above
    the drag link is specific to 1941 - and isn't 1937-40
    this however might be something to do with the differing style of 40/41 front cross-members and maybe different motors - that I don't know

    1941 pick up
    [​IMG]
    listing says 37-41 - but this is upto 40
    [​IMG]
     
  30. Shawn Wildman
    Joined: Jul 8, 2018
    Posts: 82

    Shawn Wildman

    HotrodA - I had my steering terminology mixed up (another example of my noobness). The tie rod, not the drag link is hitting the oil pan.

    I forgot I posted those pics. Truck looks pretty much the same these days, only a little cleaner:

    2051.JPEG

    1975.JPEG

    IMG_1125.jpg
     
    Blues4U, hfh, Baumi and 2 others like this.

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