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Hot Rods Steering death wobble help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TudorTony, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. TudorTony
    Joined: Jun 2, 2013
    Posts: 231

    TudorTony
    Member
    from NJ

    Ongoing project to get one I bought in Sept on the street keeps "just one more thinging" me. thought I could correct steering issue on a poorly fabricated configuration. See pic's before and after. But while steers better geometry wise any bumps put's it into a Death wobble like jacked up wranglers. really needs new config, ie, Mustang 2 front surgery but don't have the green right now and would like to have some fun w it while saving my Shekels, :). so thinking about the stabilizer set up they use on wranglers? any other ideas? upload_2019-4-4_10-11-51.png upload_2019-4-4_10-12-42.png upload_2019-4-4_10-13-18.png
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    What the hell is that thing in the last pic mounted from the axle to the middle of the tie rod? So much wrong in just a few pics.
     
    RICH B, Baron, Montana1 and 5 others like this.
  3. You fix that by starting over.
    Mass manufactured M2 kit ain't the best thing unless your hot rod is really really close to a M2.
     
  4. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Angular steering dampener.:p Just ONE STEP CLOSER to a Mustang ll transplant...:eek:
     
    Baumi and chryslerfan55 like this.

  5. TudorTony
    Joined: Jun 2, 2013
    Posts: 231

    TudorTony
    Member
    from NJ

    Was attempt at a stabilizer link. Criticism fine constructive criticism better.
     
    Greg Rogers likes this.
  6. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    The drag link to tie rod connection seems inadequate to me, looks like there could be an amount of flex going on there that would allow some oscillations to occur. I'd be thinking of a more substantial connection between the two.
     
    chryslerfan55 and Cosmo50 like this.
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Unless the length of the stabilizer is exactly the same as the length of the spindle steering arm, and is in the exact same arc as the spindle, you may have found your problem. And it probably still won't work unless it is in the exact middle of the tie rod since the spindle arms are not parallel to each other. Which then brings up Ackerman, since you have rear-facing spindles pointed forward, and haven't bent the arms out.

    Or it could be the heims, or the dropped spacers between the tie rod and spindle, or the too short drag link attached to the midpoint of the tie rod. You can't have a wiggly joint (drag link) attached to another wiggly joint (tie rod) and expect them to stay still.
     
  8. No way,
    Think it thru.
    Seems you tried to make an idler arm style component, but just 1 and off the axle.

    Let's see the wheels and scrub radius - a shot from the front that shows the whole set up
     
    chryslerfan55 and gimpyshotrods like this.
  9. Your shocks seem to be installed in a almost closed position.If you have 1/2 inch shock travel,and the springs can flex 1-1/2 inch or so all the road shock gets transmitted through the chassis .
     
  10. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    The only way to fix this afterbirth of a pig is to rip it out and start over.
    And if you want the thread to escape deleting before the end of the day, I'd stronjgly suggest your deleting all mention of the M2 front suspension, which is a certain poison pill here on HAMB.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  11. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,373

    Fordors
    Member

    Scrub looks decent, the rotor is tucked pretty good into the rim.
     
  12. this needs a complete redesign. Start by taking the spindles and putting them back on the sides they belong. the Ackerman is all wrong with the steering arms pointing forward. Swap the spindles and then start looking into a way to get the tie rod from the pitman arm to the passenger spindle. I have never driven a car that had the spindle swapped like that that didn't have some level of death wobble in it.
     
  13. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Oh, I missed the zero shock travel. That's important too.
     
  14. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

  15. that's some scary looking stuff right there
     
  16. is the axle installed 180 out? I see spindle arms to the front.

    Is this a F1 axle? What are the king ping angles? What is the toe?

    So many questions to ask.
     
    gimpyshotrods and dirty old man like this.
  17. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 2,363

    evintho
    Member

    C'mon man, you're late to the party. April Fool's day was 3 days ago!
     
  18. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I see you're still chasing your tail on that cobbled up nightmare of a 40 pickup that you should have passed up.
     
  19. MO54Frank
    Joined: Apr 1, 2019
    Posts: 440

    MO54Frank
    Member

    So the first picture and the second picture are before and after? And the third pic is more detail of the after? I agree you need to park that thing until you get it fixed correctly.
     
  20. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Simple way too fix,is do your home work{you failed that class by playing hooky},,take time to read up on straight axle front end design. Your not the first to be too lazy to read up an learn=all those that added IFS M2 to older cars,thinking it was way to make frontend work,with out them working at learning why straight axle front works just find when done as designed,also failed .
    All that aside from IFS is ugly on older cars.
    So start over by reading,info is here an all over WWW,asking is good after,there is some info already in your head,for others to work with adding too. Yes,this is trying to be helpful.
     
    Baron and dirty old man like this.
  21. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,535

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    Umm.....my brain hurts from looking at this. No offence, but I don't see anything right about this setup. I'd pull it apart and start over, starting with the steering box and rebuild from there.
     
  22. hallrods
    Joined: Feb 21, 2012
    Posts: 1,238

    hallrods
    Member

    I wouldn't give up on the straight axle for a mustang kit but it needs some change. The spindles need to get changed but I think the builder reversed them because of oil pan clearance. Can someone post a diagram of what the steering should look like so he knows what to change? Then he can see if he has clearance for the changes.
    I developed a death wobble after 3 years of driving on my parallel leaf straight axle setup. I changed steering box, tie rod ends geometry balanced tires still had the problem. I had too much toe in and the death wobble appeared after tire wear from to much toe in. I would send pictures of mine but it's a dodge and quite different.
     
    dirty old man and dana barlow like this.
  23. Got fire insurance on it?
     
  24. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^LOL:)
     
    dana barlow and Blue One like this.
  25. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Take a look back at his thread on the truck, the whole damned thing is a scary piece of junk.
     
    gimpyshotrods and dana barlow like this.
  26. TudorTony
    Joined: Jun 2, 2013
    Posts: 231

    TudorTony
    Member
    from NJ

    1st pic as bought has same issue & worse. The geometry or flex had left wheel turn more than right making left tire scrub the ground & going strait had the death wobble too. The original builder put BB Mopar in the ‘47 Ford PU frame created clearance issues & I believe is why he switched the steering 180degrees w steering & cross links in front instead of behind spindle position. As I indicated i know it’s a F’ed up design & needs new design. Not sure what the Hate Mustang 2 front end is about but still think it will be final resolve when green $ is available. Until then I’d like to get mod. this & get working for a couple seasons out of it while I wait if possible.
     
  27. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    The Ackerman angles turned backwards is what's causing the tires to scrub goofy. A perfect example.

    The loose joints are probably causing the death wobble. Heim joints aren't meant for tie rods on the street.
     
  28. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    the hate for mustang 2 ifs is because this is a pre 65 based traditional hot rod forum and modern ifs swaps are off topic
     
    Baron, jimgoetz, Beanscoot and 2 others like this.
  29. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    The hate MII thing is basically that they aren’t and never will be a traditional hot rod part or traditional hot rod modification.

    And in some cases they are less than ideal and not much better than a properly set up early Ford front suspension.

    That truck needs a whole lot more help than a MII swap.

    I suggest a few sticks of dynamite :D
    Then maybe you could salvage anything good that survives and start over :D
     

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