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Technical Steering box dilemma

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TABLAY, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

    Building a straight axle suspension. with space limitations I need to put steering box inside frame, behind axle, and cross steer arms in front of axle. So need reverse rotation manual box. Having hard time finding one (vega/saginaw). Any one know of a stash of them? Any other units work? Any other ideas?
     
  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,653

    manyolcars

    you will never get Ackerman with cross steer arms in front of axle. thats ratrod stuff
     
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  3. Try a GM 525 box from Speedway. Its a bit larger that a Vega,and a better choice for larger cars. Put the arms behind the axle if possible.
     
  4. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,748

    1934coupe
    Member

    Did I miss something? What are you building? It seems to me that something could be done to have correct steering in a car regardless of space limitations. Picture and description go a long way to solve a problem.

    Pat
     
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  5. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 7,256

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Need a lot more info before I'll make a recommendation. I will add that you should put the tierod behind, but with enough fabrication, and reworking it can work well up front. But no stock, or aftermarket arms will work as is if flipped to the front side. They'll need serious reworking to get the geometry correct and not scrub the tires when turning.
     
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  6. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,988

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    If you can run the drag link behind the axle ,why can't you run the tie rod ?
     
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  7. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

    Using a straight axle kit from Speedway. The steering arms in the kit face forward from the spindles. If I flip them backwards it would cover grease zert. Cannot put steering box in front of axle, without relocating radiator.
     
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,855

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't use that kit.

    Risking catastrophic under steer is not a good solution to blocking a grease fitting

    Oh, and it is Zerk, not zert. They are named for the inventor and one-time patent holder Oscar Zerk.
     
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  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,908

    alchemy
    Member

    Flip the spindles side for side so the zerk is still uncovered when you move the arms to the back.
     
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  10. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 3,469

    goldmountain

    Flip the Pittman arm 180 degrees.
     
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  11. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 114

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    Look for a manual box from a S10 /S15. Same as a 525 but with an extra mounting ear.
     
  12. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,988

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Pictures would certainly help... There are 45° @ 90° zeros available .
     
  13. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 114

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    Ackerman with cross steer arms in front of the axle IS possible, not just a direct swap. You may have to build or modify the existing arms. This design was used on many cars and pickups. What spindles are you using?
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,855

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If there were literally no way to install any of the veritable multitude of grease fittings on the market, I would pre-grease, and then put in a plug, before I built something with inverted Ackerman.
     
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  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,855

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sure, but he's implied that he already has a kit, that is either not properly assembled, or improperly designed.

    We'd need a whole mess of pictures to determine where the actual problem lies.
     
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  16. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,948

    redo32
    Member

    I think this is what he's working on.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

  18. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

    probably best images I could get, grill, fenders, radiator on it now.
    I thought about switching spindles, but trailing arm would hit oil pan ( and I really dont want to mount motor much higher if possible). And the tech at Speedway told me the brake calipers should always be on the rear side of the rotor, is that correct?
    Not sure what an Ackerman is, I'll google it.
    putting box in front of trailing arm would box in radiator territory.
     
  19. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,908

    alchemy
    Member

    Why in the world would the caliper care what side of the spindle it's on? Just make sure the bleeder is pointing up.

    You have lots of options to change the steering arms to adjust your tie rods up or down when you move them to the back side of the spindle. You would be wise to investigate some of the possibilities instead of keeping the arms in front and having horrible cornering/tire scrubbing when you turn.
     
  20. 8CE9C448-F0D6-4231-8C3E-D0DA12398D91.jpeg

    You buy these

    DB04A8EA-21D6-458F-ACB6-14F0D62E833A.jpeg

    then grease with this .


    If these is still not enough space go to your closes forklift part distributor and look up “ press in flush mount zero fittings” Raymond uses them all over the scissor or pentagraph mechanism.

    All this thinking and brain smoke for a zerk :confused:

    more then one way to skin a cat
    Like @gimpyshotrods said pack it with grease then plug the hole, if when grease is needed you would have to take some stuff apart so be it.

    looks like you got a bunch of work into this thing, why muck it up and over think this ?
     
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  21. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,437

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Them shackles are useless.
     
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  22. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

    took out a leaf, once front clip assembled, and the shackles flipped down
     
  23. TABLAY
    Joined: May 7, 2011
    Posts: 106

    TABLAY
    Member

    offset steering arms is a good start, didn't think about putting tie rod below leafs
     
  24. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,140

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    Check out how the '42-'47 Ford pickups are steered. That's basically what you want to end up with.
    Get everything behind the axle and build whatever it takes to properly connect. Steering and pitman arms can be bent, modified or fabbed...same for oil pans.
    Proper Ackerman angle is one of the most important things to get right for keeping any car from being an unstable death trap. You want to drive your car, not have your car drive you;)
    Good luck!
     
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  25. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,844

    Andy
    Member

    It is easy to drill and tap for new grease zerks wherever you want them
     
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  26. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 114

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    Not sure what kit you purchased from Speedway. The tube axle kit for the Chevy II has front tie rod and front mounted steering box. May be able to exchange arms if that would work for you. Check on the Speedway web or talk to one of the techs.
     
  27. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 3,469

    goldmountain

    Where do I go to find these grease zerks?
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  28. sometimes yes , sometimes no. I see on a regular basis where a bushing or pin will either be drilled or have groves in them to disperse the grease , if you just drill a hole in a random spot the grease won’t travel everywhere it’s supposed to.
    Not an “always “ rule. But something to look out for


    forklift or industrial parts suppliers will have them, like I said Raymond reach trucks use them all over the reach mechanism and walkies use them.
    I have never seen them on the shelf but I’m sure any industrial supply that stocks Almite or Lincoln grease fittings could get them for you.

    If you where closer I’d say swing by the shop and I’d give you a bunch :)
    .
     
  29. Why is it always Speedway? :rolleyes:
     
  30. 0A4383A2-DA63-402E-9215-7D06B7712C84.jpeg

    These are the press in ones I was talking about, they sit flush to whatever they are pressed into and the centre where you grease them is slightly dished .
     

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