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Steering AV8. F1 box + model A flange. WHY?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hitchhiker, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. I asked about this on my thread. But I wanted to get some opinions from people not reading my dribble....:p

    So, obviously a F1 box doesn't just bolt in to a model A frame. In "The Book" as it will be refered to. They recommend cutting off the end and welding the A end on to it. I'm sure this works great, but why is this done? Is it to get the box closer to the frame? I was thinking at first, Why can't the flange of the box be shaped to that of the model A? But maybe that is to close to the motor? Is it the exhaust that gets in the way? I don't have manifolds yet, so I can't test that.( unless 8ba ones work on 59AB's) I can think of a few other ways to do this too. One of which Tank posted on my thread. Turn down the box's end to press fit the A flange onto. You can view that post here for pictures. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6967067&postcount=294

    That would allow you to modify the distance it is mounted from the frame rail.
    Not to mention that you could also modify the frame to just fit the f1 box, but that would be a little unattractive.

    So what am I overlooking?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  2. lowsquire
    Joined: Feb 21, 2002
    Posts: 2,564

    lowsquire
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    angle of the F1 flange is wrong, and its too big to fit inside an A frame rail. simple as that.
     
  3. That's what I thought, but Maybe my eyes decieve me. The flange doesn't seem angled :confused: It seems to sit straight against the frame.
     
  4. Never mind, It looks like there isn't enough material to meet up with the frame in the stock locations. I'm just sitting in the garage trying to make it steer. Hoping to get lucky. I'll work on something else tonight.


    ....Guess I need to find a MA box...
     
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  5. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Model A frame is tapered rear to front, F 1 is a straight ladder. Usually more space is needed for exhaust...old timers frequently built a box on side of frame on A-V8's to move steering out!
    Any flathead exhaust manifolds will fit any other flathead.
     
  6. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    Here's an F-1 box I set up for a 32 frame...

    [​IMG]

    Machined the stock F-1 flange off (could also be cut of with a saw and shaped with a grinder) and then made a new 32 style flange to weld on. Doing it this way, you need to enlarge the frame hole to about 1-7/8" to let the sector housing stick though.

    [​IMG]

    Hope that helps.

    Neal
     
  7. fatboys69
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 276

    fatboys69
    Member
    from Tennessee

    Here is my set up, its on my 30 A pick up. Using a F1 box, made my own
    mount and welded to the frame. Got plenty of clearance , am running ram horns as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. 48 Chubby
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,015

    48 Chubby
    Member Emeritus

    Be careful here. You can set every thing where it looks and works perfectly-until the body is set on the frame and you learn that the steering column has the most awful angle. Then you take the body off and do it again.
    I don't care to discuss the details of how I learned this little factoid.
     
    carbed87 likes this.
  9. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,763

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    Neals way of doing it (BTW second pic is a F100 box) is the best way i think.
    No Problems with the bushing.
    Just add a plate to the outside got get back strentgh from the bigger hole in the frame

    But i would rebuilt a 30-31 box and use that......works good, too

    I never understood the fuss about F-1 and F100 boxes

    The 32 in my avatar has a 32 box and after a rebuilding it steers easy like a F100
     
  10. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    Actually a 37 Hudson box...check out the pitman arm mounting.

    Neal
     

  11. I hate you! :D I want one of those hudson boxes so bad. I found one for $40 bucks but it was a 13 hour drive each way and he wouldn't ship. :(

    Thanks for the advice. I'm basically going to do what Neil did.
     
  12. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,763

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    Hell, yeah you are right.....

    Man , you have all the nice stuff :)
     
  13. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    You shoulda driven the 26 hours for that price... :)

    If you ship me your F-1 box, I will machine the flange off for you and ship it back. It should fit in a $10.95 USPS flat rate box...

    Neal
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  14. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,285

    swissmike
    Member

    I ued the same method as Neal. The nice thing is you can control the angle of the steering mast and how far the snout of the box protrudes from the frame rails. Especially if the frame tapers a wedge shim can cause interference of the pitman arm with the frame.
    Make sure to postion eveything (body, column drop, pedals, pitman arm) before you tack the flange to the box.
     
  15. you do it because the f1 flang is to big,wrong angle and the snout or sector housing is to long. all good reasons to take it off.you also dont need to do one thing to the frame if you do.

    cut mine off,shortend the sector housing to clear my engine, set the angle of my coulmn,and didn modify my frame one bit. works great, and it looks awesome.
     
  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,155

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good thread that solves one of those "how the hell am I going to make that work" questions.
     
  17. dawford
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 499

    dawford
    Member

    I love this kind of thread.

    I just bought a 1951 f1 complete steering box, Column and wheel for $50.00 that I want to put it in my 29 Tudor when I put juice brakes and a T5 overdrive in it.

    I like nealinCA's idea best.

    I think that I will turn down the box like Neal and turn out the inside of a Model A flange so that it is a friction fit on the box I will also make an outside flange cover to further reinforce the frame mounting.

    The only thing I will do differently is that after bolting it the correct position will carefully mark it then after removing it I will drill, tap and allen screw the model A flange in several places to hold it on the box instead of welding it on.

    3 or 4 allen screws in sheer would probably hold the weight if the car off of the ground and if anyone was really concerned they could fabricate another thicker flange to mount on the outside of the frame and connect it to the protruding portion of the steering box in the same manner.

    The screw holes can be JB Welded to insure that the allen screws do not come loose.

    PS
    The f1 column came with a 3 on the tree stick shift setup that I won't use.


    Dick :) :) :)
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  18. dawford
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 499

    dawford
    Member

    After thinking about it some more I think I will wait untill I have the front drop axle and new spring installed and weight on the front to see if I will weld up the original mounting holes and move them down and forward to better position the pitman arm to avoid bump steer.

    Dick :) :) :)
     
  19. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

    If you don't want to weld on the box...take a look at a late 20's/early 30's Chevy. They clamped the box into the frame...but with alot more clamping area than you are talking about.

    Here's another F-1 box that I just did for HAMBer studefreak...

    [​IMG]

    ...with a weld on flange.

    Neal
     
  20. studefreak
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 187

    studefreak
    Member

    Right on Neal ! Cant wait for it to show up . Shipped the hudson box out to you on Thursday
     
  21. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 5,293

    -Brent-
    Member

    Whoa Neal, awesome kit!
     
  22. Bill Van Dyke
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 810

    Bill Van Dyke
    Member

    Another way..I used a VW bus mount,and machined the flange off the F1 box. Let me adjust the shaft angle and kept the drag link more level. Just carried the hood reveal around the sector. Obviously hiboys only. Bill
     

    Attached Files:

  23. greasemunkee
    Joined: Jul 13, 2009
    Posts: 174

    greasemunkee
    Member
    from San Diego

    Bill, I've heard about the VW bus mount also, but don't know what years will work. I saw a bus in a bone yard a while back and looked under there, but didn't see the mount I've seen used. Could you please tell me what year bus you got your mount from? Thanks!
     
  24. Bill Van Dyke
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 810

    Bill Van Dyke
    Member

    Wish I could be more specific for you but it's been a while back. as I remember it was out of a 70's bus that had a Gemmer steering box. I cut off the lower flange that fit on the side.
     
  25. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,882

    NealinCA
    Member

  26. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,911

    need louvers ?
    Member

    I used to run a VW shop, and if memory serves correct, that box was used until about '72 or so.
     
  27. Bill Van Dyke
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 810

    Bill Van Dyke
    Member

    Good shot guys..Neal's post shows the bracket (1955-1967) for 24.00
     
  28. Dragrace66
    Joined: Sep 13, 2001
    Posts: 258

    Dragrace66
    Member

    Thanks NealinCA, you made my day.
    I only have hand machine tools, it is not so nice like yours but it works for me.
    I am still waiting for my steel plate to finish the work on the box.
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Lucky77
    Joined: Mar 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,483

    Lucky77
    Member

    I used an F1 box with a Model A snout on my 30 roadster. I ordered a set of headers from Redd's for this application and they didn't fit. I moved the box as close to the rail as I could without throwing the steering column angle off. I decided on squaring everything up and just modifying the back header tube.
     

    Attached Files:

  30. Dragrace66
    Joined: Sep 13, 2001
    Posts: 258

    Dragrace66
    Member

    Lucky77 I have the same problem with the Red's headers. It looks that my 8BA sits a bit higher than your engine in the frame.
    At first I want to finish the steering box and than fixing the problem with the header or build a new header for this site.
     

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