My son works in a performance motorcycle shop building water cooled rice rockets. He tells me after they build an engine they start them dry.......... no coolant. He wants to rebuild the carb in my 307 powered 1939 Ford, a red one in case you work at a parts store. The tri-five Chevy radiator has a broken top tank and is empty. The hoses and belts rotted and fell off after 35 years sitting. He wants to start the SBC dry to make sure this engine is not a waste of time and money. Low mileage small 1969 GM 2-barrel with powerglide. Maybe it's a 65 to be traditional. Way back in 1979 it ran fine. Way back in 1994 it ran decent altho the carb spacer had rotted. So basically it has not been run in 21 years. Yet after soaking in tranny fluid the engine cranked over like new. There were no plugs, points, or carb last week when cranked. Also no coolant! At that time it showed 25# oil pressure for a few quick spins. The high tech question is can this engine safely be started and run with no coolant and how long is it safe to do it? I need comments from pros like Beaner. I should know but I've forgotten more than I thought I knew!
yeah, you can run it for a few minutes, no problem. We did it all the time at the junkyard decades ago. When the heads start to get warm, shut it off.
Thanks Jim. That's what my 25 year old son said. I hate it when he knows more than me. I was smarter than my dad too! I was gonna add your name with beaner's but didn't wanna piss you off.
coolant in it won't help unless you've got a complete cooling system in working order with a good water pump....run it dry if you just wanna check to see how it sounds.
I have run many engines(new and used) without coolant and just to be "on the safe side" have generally run them between 30 seconds and 1 minute no more than that.That time should be plenty long enough to check for leaks,good oil pressure, and generally make a judgement call as to how sound your engine is.It is possible to run them for a longer period of time,but I personally do NOT feel that comfortable doing that so shut them down after about a minute or very shortly after that time.
just keep a garden hose running through the system. a little duct tape.......it can run for a long time. disclaimer; not for California builders
My dad didn't drive, check or change oil, or much of anything with cars. That's partly why I can't figure out why I like old cars. With these answers I feel better about starting the engine. My plan also was to stick a water hose in the neck. Finally found the correct carb repair kit so just gotta go get it in town. All I want to do is see if the engine sounds decent and is worth putting money into. 35+ years is a long time.
For what it is worth, my father was the same, wouldn't touch cars, and only had a hammer , a couple screwdrivers and a 12" crescent in his tool box. My sbc sat for 20 odd years never run, last 8 years with out being even hand turned over and it runs fine. First few runs were without a fan, but sill put coolant in radiator. I Just shut it down when it got warm, but it would have been a timing issue, so if not timed correctly they can get hot real quick!
Thanks Clem. Dad was a carpenter so had wood working tools. Cars just never interested him. The main reason I abandoned my car was the 55-57 Chevy radiator top tank broke. Then I just did other things. I've even had other used radiators. Right now son wants to take the 55-57 Desert Cooler radiator out of the 41 Ford and stick it in the 39. That would just be double work and then the 41 would sit. All I want to do is like you, hear it run. The 307 can't have too many miles on it. At first I was disappointed after finding out it is a 307. But those are just 283's with a 327 crank built for torque.
Well we race SBCs without coolant. They usually get poppin hot by the time they reach the big end and if someone slow stages it is very hard on them but we are talking a minimum of 5-10 minutes without coolant. Here is the problem running one without coolant, there is no way to use a gauge to tell how hot it is. A temp gauge measures water temperature, or on an air cooled engine oil temperature. So you can't really run it any length of time without coolant and know for sure when to kill it. perhaps with a temp gun like an HVAC tech uses which measures radiant heat. That is not by any means saying that you cannot start it without water or coolant of some sort but it is one of those things that should only be done momentarily like a few minutes at best. You could fill the coolant passages with water and when the t stat pops open you know it is time to shut it off if you want to play a game with it. Anyway light it off it you want and run it a little bit, when the rocker cover gets hot to the touch ( your son is a wrench he knows what I am talking about) shut it down. What ever you do, do not douse it with cold water after you get it hot. Want to have an err what moment? I once started a fresh Harley motor without oil just to hear it fire off. They have a roller lower end and it was slathered well with assembly lube, but even at that it is not something that anyone should ever do.
I've started many of them with no coolant and usually just fill the float bowl of the carb from a small can or bottle through the vent tube to do so. That will usually give you between 30 seconds and a minute of run time. I even started one hanging on a chain hoist that way to show non believing students (one in particular) that it didn't have to be in a car or have the alternator connected to run.
I have started them without coolant a run for a couple of minutes without issue-never tried much longer. On a side note back in 68 had a neighbor who worked at Chevrolet. Bought a new L-79 mtr for his 65 Chevelle. He and a few friends got it installed and fired er up--too many beers-forgot the oil--that was the end of that one.
To be on the safe side plug the bottom radiator hose and throw the pump belt and fill it with water It's hard to hurt a engine that has water in it. Also cracks are easyer to find.
I've heard running without water will destroy your water pump seal. Might want to take the belt loose. EDIT: ...or run water through it from a garden hose as others have suggested.
Well, my story is to the extreme on this and almost 60 yrs. ago! Had a stock '30 "A" roadster, and a senior in high school. Armature in starter was bent and radiator leaked, Winter time in GA requires anti-freeze. So I had to drain block & rad. every night. Parked where it could roll off. Dead broke, not enough money for a starter. At school one day a friend advised me of junkyard that might have an old hand crank for "A". Hurry home (a 6 block walk),twist together the ignition wires from the busted switch, then turn frt. wheels away from curb. kick in clutch, and shift into 2nd as the roadster rolled fwd. down the hill, popped the clutch, and it fired off. Bright sunny afternoon , not cold like that AM, so I completely forgot the water was drained, and off to the 5 miles away thru town junkyard across town. Realized my error when I got there, stopped and smoke boiled up in the front! Junkyard owner was also a good mechanic and a great guy, who advised me to let it cool down while I prowled thru scrap piles and old "A"s searching for the hand crank, finally finding one. By then the engine had cooled down to feeling warm rather than hot to touch, and yard owner suggested I wait awhile longer before pouring in water. When it all cooled down enough to not feel any heat anywhere, I filled it up a little, fired it off with the hand crank under the yard owner's instructions, finished water fill, paid him a buck for the hand crank and drove away. That old "A" still ran well enough to drive it, and I could use the hand crank when I couldn't park on a hill! But I gotta admit it must have cooked the oil rings, cause it smoked enough to give a modern smog inspector a heart attack! LOL!!!!!!!
Thanks. When I wrote this little thread I figured I'd get tormented for asking a stupid question. Instead I got some good answers and encouragement. Maybe there are no stupid questions or I haven't thought of one yet! As for the water pump, we are gonna replace it anyway. After 35 years it might be corroded and have leaky gaskets. They are only $35..... maybe made in China. Belt rotted and fell of years ago So far the replacement parts are USA. Even the Walker 2-barrel carb kit at $23. Also now thinkin the engine could be a late 69 or 70 Chevelle or Caprice. Sept 10,69 was around when the 70's would be coming out. You can learn a lot from a carburator. This means the neighbor kid got a nearly new engine and I got it with still low miles. So maybe this lowly 307 will outlast me. Here's what we fingered out a stock 307 is----200HP 300#torque 283 with 327 crank built for heavy wagons, vans, trucks, and sedans. I could be wrong. I was once. Told son to take some engine photos before he melts it!
It wouldn't start! First pulled car out several days ago and after soaking pistons in tranny fluid starter spun right over without carb. Got carb kit. Rebuilt 2-barrel which looked good except deteriorated gaskets. Now starter squeals and drags. Gotta grab another SBC starter. Waited 35 years and now I can't wait!
If the engine turns over and all the valves go up and down it will be ok. Invest in rad hoses, rad, etc and fire it up. It should settle down not too bad after a 10 or 15 minute warmup. Drive it carefully (break it in) for 1000 miles and it should run like a good one. If I am wrong what the heck. The money will not be wasted if you put in another Chev engine or repair that one. Because you will be able to use all the new stuff you bought.
Some (most) of the engine rebuilders in my area (North of Fresno) affix little metal 'slugs' on the front and rear of the heads on a rebuilt engine. They are 'stuck' on there with a low temp epoxy, so if they are GONE when returned under warranty, the rebuilder knows the engine got hot: Violation of Warranty! (= tough shit. You got it hot, bud.) I'd epoxy some slugs (easy to get, construction site knockouts from electrical boxes...IF you're someplace other than Calif.! All our shit's plastic now. LOL) Anyway, look around some vintage coke machines...we used to use the 'slugs' for dimes, free cokes... Er, that's been some time ago... Depending on the heat spec of melting point for your selected epoxy, there may be a window of safe operating time (and degrees Fahrenheit) to watch for. When the slug drops, the engine stops! (a rule) In actual minutes, I'd opt for 4. I've been cooking lately, (Chinese) and 3 is the magic number... But Chinese food is rarely water cooled, and rings tend to warm faster than Bok Choy.
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